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H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

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Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#241

Post by jazzyk »

flowerlad wrote: post #240
jazzyk wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legal and controlled immigration is absolutely beneficial for the US overall. But targeting specific industries is unfair - the software industry has been the main target, lowering the income levels respective to other, protected professions (physicians, etc.), or business executives. Since people in the trades like plumbers or electricians do not fall under the umbrella of "importing the best & brightest", their hou…

>software industry has been the main target, lowering the income levels respective to other, protected professions I don’t see software engineers suffering. Starting salary in FAANG conpanies is $120K to $250K. That’s better than doctors when you factor in years of education.

Perhaps, but outside of the FAANG bubble, income levels have been stagnating for quite some time (if you adjust for inflation)

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#242

Post by flowerlad »

testrr95 wrote: post #239

I will tell you what they do in India In 2015, I got a call from Oracle India and interviews were arranged and I got hired into Oracle India. It was my first job change. Before to that, I used to work as a contractor for one of the US companies via one of the services company in India. Oracle offered me way less than what they are offering to other engineers in the same BU, for the same value generated. Reason Oracle…

If you accepted a job offer based on verbal promises as opposed to written then you only have yourself to blame. Learn your lesson and move on.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#243

Post by airstrike »

pertymcpert wrote: post #207
htfy96 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real problem is the path from L1/OPT -> H1B -> green card is purely based on how many years you have worked in the US and performed as some kind of lottery. The transition may take at least 8 years, almost identical for highly-educated Top-N employees & questionably-legal "labors" from IT Consulting Companies (there are lots of fake identities/backgrounds in these companies' H1-B applications).

Why would an L1 want to go to H1-B instead of going straight to green card?

They wouldn't

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#244

Post by untog »

pertymcpert wrote: post #207
htfy96 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real problem is the path from L1/OPT -> H1B -> green card is purely based on how many years you have worked in the US and performed as some kind of lottery. The transition may take at least 8 years, almost identical for highly-educated Top-N employees & questionably-legal "labors" from IT Consulting Companies (there are lots of fake identities/backgrounds in these companies' H1-B applications).

Why would an L1 want to go to H1-B instead of going straight to green card?

IIRC it's a lot more difficult (impossible?) to transfer an L1 between employers, whereas an H1B can be transferred.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#245

Post by e40 »

petilon wrote: post #226

America is the most powerful nation in the world today not because it has the most number of people, but because it has the best and the brightest, gathered from around the world. There are 4x as many geniuses in China as in the US. This is not because they are superior genetically. This is simply because the population of China is 4x that of USA. If one in 1,000,000 people are geniuses, then China must have 4x more…

I agree. Problem is, and I say this as an aging white person, lots of white people in the US are scared to death of brown people. I'm not talking Seattle, LA, SF (area, where I live), NY or other metropolitan places. I'm talking about most of the US. All that red space in between the coasts.

Later in life, as I travel around and watch what happens in the US, I'm convinced more than ever this is the legacy of slavery still haunting us today.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#246

Post by airstrike »

m0zg wrote: post #102

Posted this elsewhere, but as a former H1B here's what should be done to end abuse: 1. Award a fixed pool of H1Bs to qualified applicants with the highest wage in the offer (and monitor that this wage is in fact being paid). This should be easy to pass if your representatives in congress are in fact _your_ representatives. The president will sign this immediately, since he was the one who proposed it in the first pla…

> 1. Award a fixed pool of H1Bs to qualified applicants with the highest wage in the offer

There is no reason for a fixed pool to exist, and it's not easy to rank applicants by wage given significant disparities in cost of living depending on geography

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#247

Post by behindmyscreen »

petilon wrote: post #226

America is the most powerful nation in the world today not because it has the most number of people, but because it has the best and the brightest, gathered from around the world. There are 4x as many geniuses in China as in the US. This is not because they are superior genetically. This is simply because the population of China is 4x that of USA. If one in 1,000,000 people are geniuses, then China must have 4x more…

Changing the H1B visa to let holders change companies easily would be a good start at removing the pay disparity and incentive to not hire qualified US workers.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#248

Post by geofft »

Hallucinaut wrote: post #225
geofft wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what you mean by "being a country," but, no, you wouldn't. If they didn't have jobs they couldn't stay. If they did they'd find housing - perhaps some would even build housing for the rest. To imagine that two billion people could move to the US, find employment, and all be homeless is to imagine an interesting form of market failure that I don't yet understand.

So they would definitely get back on planes rather than just going rogue and trying to stay in the country and working illegally? And existing citizens would not lose out through massive oversupply problems in the labour market? I can't say I agree at all this would be of benefit to any nation willing to do this.

Like I've been saying in this thread, existing citizens are going to lose out anyway. The labor market is global. There is no way to have the government interfere in the free market to preserve jobs for certain people of certain backgrounds, and not have it backfire. It is already backfiring, in many industries.

So if you care about not making existing citizens lose out—which I do!—find a solution other than protectionism. Find a solution that works. A UBI, so that not finding a job doesn't ruin your life, is a good one. Fund it with income taxes on immigrants who come here and do well. (And on a UBI you can spend as much time as you want training in an advanced skill or learning a complicated profession so that you can compete in another segment of the labor market.)

No country is going to do this because no country wants to admit to their citizens that the "country" and "citizen" abstractions are powerless against the reality of the global free market. It's too politically incorrect; people would rather believe that protectionism works. But it's the right thing to do.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#249

Post by cptskippy »

Top teir software companies might claim the H-1B program allows them to hire the best and brightest from around the world, but that's not how everyone else uses the program. It allows consulting/contracting firms to hire low wage tech workers who are desperate to stay in the US and lock them into a form of indentured servitude because the road to a green card or citizenship is now a decade long journey and changing your job effectively restarts that journey.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#250

Post by geofft »

thatcat wrote: post #180
geofft wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what you mean by "being a country," but, no, you wouldn't. If they didn't have jobs they couldn't stay. If they did they'd find housing - perhaps some would even build housing for the rest. To imagine that two billion people could move to the US, find employment, and all be homeless is to imagine an interesting form of market failure that I don't yet understand.

Plenty of jobs pay less than a living wage.

OK, I am fine with amending my proposal to "any job that pays at least a living wage in the area where you live."

A bonus of that amendment is that if you want to bring family, you must all in sum earn a living wage for your family, but you can split that however you want, so e.g. you can legally bring children who aren't going to work or legally take more than 90 days to raise a child.

(Also it might embarrass the government into raising the minimum wage for citizens to a living wage.)

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