US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages • Hacker News Board

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#411

Post by larkeith » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 5:08 PM UTC

creaghpatr wrote: post #31

neolander wrote: post #21

There's no way the federal shutdown lasts too much longer. The heat is on and too many people feel the hurt now, especially in a place like New York. If I were a betting man, I'd say 3-4 days max.

If the airports remain shut down, the economic cost will quickly balloon to multiples of the $5.7B requested for the wall. It's literally a rounding error in the budget.

The 2013 government shutdown cost 0.1%-0.2% of the annualized GDP growth rate per week [1]. If I'm understanding correctly and doing my math right, with a GDP of about 20t $usd and a 3.5% growth rate, that's a 350b-700b $usd reduction in GDP.

[1] https://www.economist.com/united-states/2013/10/03/closed-un...

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#412

Post by whorleater » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 5:08 PM UTC

benj111 wrote: post #378

whorleater wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Air traffic controllers are essential to life, which is why they are asked to go to work currently. Not getting paid is a different question entirely.

Oh ok, I understood your link to mean payment was allowed where essential. Aren't some people getting paid? aren't they deemed essential?!? Am I looking for sense where there isn't any?!

There are multiple layers in this shutdown:

1. This is a "partial government shutdown", so only some agencies (homeland security, state, SEC, etc) are affected. Some agencies like the Department of Defense are not affected and funded at previous levels.

And

2. There are different levels of "federal workers":

- "Essential" employees: government workers whose job are deemed to endanger "life" or "property", so they are working without pay and told to report to work. These people will (very likely receive back pay once the shutdown ends)

- "Nonessential" government employees: people who are not currently working and not receiving paychecks. These people will also most likely receive backpay once the shutdown ends.

- Federal contractors: janitors, drivers, caterers, temporary staff, part time staff, paid interns, etc are not currently working and will most likely not receive backpay once the shutdown ends.

Note that with very few exceptions (like congressmen/congresswomen/senators, etc) most people in the federal government who are affected by the shutdown are not getting paid currently at all, even if they are told to show up to work.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#413

Post by tomschlick » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 5:09 PM UTC

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #199

lazyant wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Canada it triggers a new election

Can we get this please? I can think of a really great way to stop this shutdown by removal of one person in particular.

Honestly the last thing I want when we reach a budget impasse is for a full roster of rookie congressmen managing it. Thats ripe for abuse and you'd be getting rid of a lot of well seasoned people who know how to work around red tape to get things done and make deals.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#414

Post by epage » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 5:09 PM UTC

asabjorn wrote: post #379

Both sides are being stupid here. Trump knew the #resistance mindset makes it impossible for democrats to even trade something they supposedly care about, DACA protections, for the wall he cares about. I just find it mind-boggling that this path was even tried when it was a big gamble on popular opinion overruling #resistance. I find it hypocritical that the democrats are willing to spend more money on #resistance th…

While yes, there is a negotiation between two perspectives going on, imo the fault for the shutdown is independent and wholly owned by Trump and McConnell with the republican senators as accessories for not ousting McConnell.

The House and the Senate passed a bill in December to keep the government open. From what I read, the Senate bill passed with a veto-proof majority. Trump vetoed but McConnell refused to get this through despite Trump.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#415

Post by athenot » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 5:09 PM UTC

I'm not a lawyer so I'm wondering: how feasible would it be for government employees to sue the president in small claims court and get a default judgement since there's no way he'll how up all over the country? Kinda like how people did this in the Equifax data leak...

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#416

Post by lolc » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 5:09 PM UTC

mayneack wrote: post #11

Federal workers should start striking. I gather that in most cases they're explicitly prevented from striking, but I think there's a good chance that it's too unpopular to actually punish them. Also yesterday some leadership of the flight attendants union called for a general strike until it was over: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/01/could-an-unlikely-av...

They could just work-to-rule.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#417

Post by zentiggr » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 5:10 PM UTC

metamet wrote: post #173

cr1895 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>An administration official recommended that all those affected simply take out loans but unfortunately banks don't lend to people without an income I think bills have been passed already guaranteeing back pay for federal employees, so it's a bit more complicated than "no income" for federal employees. However, everyone else who is a contractor or otherwise tangentially dependent on government employment... And of co…

Well, to add a bit more context to it, the administration dismissed the issue, saying that people should just work with grocery stores and banks in order to survive. Full text: > Local people know who they are when they go for groceries and everything else. So I think what Wilbur was probably trying to say was that they will work along — I know banks are working along. If you have mortgages, the mortgagees, the folks…

So... mortgage holders are just going to say "oh, you're on furlough... ok, we'll hold your payment schedule and just rewrite the terms once you have pay again."

WTF is the disconnect here? Defaults are going to spike and I can't imagine that any significant percentage of them would be forgiven.

And I haven't seen a grocery store run 'personal credit' since maybe before the 50s at best? Pre-Depression?

Somebody is breathing that Washington nitrous oxide again.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#418

Post by HashHishBang » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 5:10 PM UTC

HarryHirsch wrote: post #301

czbond wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it is that it isn't understood that people make different lifestyle and economic decisions and we all pay for our decisions somehow no matter what they are; The sensationalism, victimization blaming, and "woe is me" that a small minority and media raise. No one is entitled to income, a job, or having others pay for their expenses. It is a "take the lump, become stronger, make a plan for now and later, a…

No one is entitled to income, a job, or having others pay for their expenses That is an assertion, not a statement of fact. Christian values actually teach the exact opposite, and that's why Jesus said that one cannot serve God and Mammon at the same time.

>That is an assertion, not a statement of fact.

Pfft, according to you? Calling it an assertion suggests the statement lacks some form of support from reality. As opposed to the very clear fact that humans in the world are not entitled to income, a job, or having other pay for their expense.

Christian values having nothing to do with this and bringing religion into the mix won't help the discussion.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#419

Post by Armisael16 » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 5:10 PM UTC

Consultant32452 wrote: post #226

resters wrote: post #93

At the risk of introducing a political topic into this supposedly apolitical subject, why shouldn't any president simply make demands and then shut down the government until his/her political opponents cave? Seemingly this strategy will not work ever again for either party if proper steps are taken. It seems like a terrible abuse of executive power.

The specific power being used here is the presidential veto, which is an important power of the president which is checked by the legislature being able to overrule a veto if they get enough votes. In more calm times they could just pass legislation that would end the concept of government shut downs by funding at the previous rate in the event of a failure to agree to new funding levels. Neither side wants that beca…

The democrats have introduced a bill to automatically pass CRs to prevent this. They also haven’t had enough votes to force such legislation through since 2010 - 15 years after the previous shutdown.

Don’t throw that both sides crap in here.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#420

Post by Wowfunhappy » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 5:10 PM UTC

tibbon wrote: post #56

wonderwonder wrote: post #24

Bearing in mind that ~40% of american's could not come up with $400 to cover emergencies, this is going to become more prevalent in the next few days / weeks as people will simply not be able to afford gas to get to their unpaid work. I read an article today discussing how TSA workers in HI are living in their cars in the airport parking lot as they cannot afford to commute. The FBI just cancelled its internship prog…

I've seen too many people say, "Oh, government workers should all know this stuff happens all the time, and if they don't have months or years of savings in the bank then it's just their fault". It's really sad that instead of being compassionate, too many are focusing on what "should" be instead of what is the reality for many people. Like you point out, the reality is that most people don't have savings. They shoul…

Not to mention, if having months of savings in the bank in case of shutdowns is a requirement for holding a government job, working for the government just got a lot less appealing.

This whole event is going to lead to long term loss of talent.