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Zillow CEO: startups trying to disrupt real estate commissions will fail (2012)

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Re: Zillow CEO: startups trying to disrupt real estate commissions will fail (2012)

#271
post #199

Real estate agents have three things they offer that until recently you could not get on your own. The first is listing on the MLS. The second is the MLS lockbox so other realtors can easily show the listed house. The third is access to the negotiated forms. All of these you can now get from a startup called Savvy Lane for a flat fee. We listed our house in Portland, paid Savvy Lane $495, and it sold 11 days later. I…

The catch is you don't know whether you under priced your house for that or well more than that unless you paid an appraiser or broker to help you set the price. Most FSBOs sell for under market.

You also don't know if you under priced your house if you go through an agent.

Re: Zillow CEO: startups trying to disrupt real estate commissions will fail (2012)

#272
post #199

Real estate agents have three things they offer that until recently you could not get on your own. The first is listing on the MLS. The second is the MLS lockbox so other realtors can easily show the listed house. The third is access to the negotiated forms. All of these you can now get from a startup called Savvy Lane for a flat fee. We listed our house in Portland, paid Savvy Lane $495, and it sold 11 days later. I…

The catch is you don't know whether you under priced your house for that or well more than that unless you paid an appraiser or broker to help you set the price. Most FSBOs sell for under market.

You can get a house appraised for around $1200 CAD in the town I used to work in real estate in.

Pay that instead.

Re: Zillow CEO: startups trying to disrupt real estate commissions will fail (2012)

#273
post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the key functions of a broker is to provide plausible deniability, such as screening potential buyers who you think might waste your time or to avoid accusations of discrimination.

Brokers have to present all offers.

But at least they can waste the brokers time rather than yours.

Re: Zillow CEO: startups trying to disrupt real estate commissions will fail (2012)

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those unfamiliar, what do they do?

Online estate agent (real estate broker in US terms, I think). You list your house on their website and stick their sign outside your house, and then pay a fixed fee (£900 apparently).

They also have agents so they are kind of a hybrid online offline model. Founded 2014.

>Purplebricks has already become the number one Real Estate Brokerage in the UK in only three years, and is the fastest growing brand in Australia since launching there in 2016.

They've now launched in the US. Not sure how that'll go. They've got good trustpilot feedback https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.purplebricks.com

The model seems slightly different in the US. In LA it seems to be a fixed $3,600 fee https://www.purplebricks.com/sell?lreeZipcode=90210

Re: Zillow CEO: startups trying to disrupt real estate commissions will fail (2012)

#275
Rascoff explained that Zillow really has “no skin in the commission game” when it comes to what real estate professionals get paid, comparing Zillow to information provider WebMD.

Not accurate at all. For one, Zillow could do about 1000 things to promote competition among realtors, but it doesn't do that.

It could remind people that in 1950, the Supreme Court ruled that putting a hard-coded "6 %" on a real estate contract is, in fact, illegal price fixing.

It could remind people that "6 percent" of a sales price often equates to a much larger number when it comes to equity lost (e.g. if you have 250K equity in a house worth 750K, the commission amounts to ~ 21.3333 % of your equity.

It could remind Realtors that attempting to get people to sign contracts that they refuse to negotiate on is coercion, and it could help people sue Realtors who participate in cartel-like practices.

But it doesn't do that.

For those interested: The Supreme Court case from 1950: UNITED STATES v. REAL ESTATE BOARDS https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/339/485.html

   Factual findings of the Court

   Enough has been said to show that under our decisions an illegal price-fixing scheme has 
   been proved, unless the [339 U.S. 485, 489] fixing of real estate commissions is not included 
   in the prohibitions of 3 of the Act. Price-fixing is per se an unreasonable restraint of trade. 
   It is not for the courts to determine whether in particular settings price-fixing serves an 
   honorable or worthy end. An agreement, shown either by adherence to a price schedule or by 
   proof of consensual action fixing the uniform or minimum price, is itself illegal under the 
   Sherman Act, no matter what end it was designed to serve.

Re: Zillow CEO: startups trying to disrupt real estate commissions will fail (2012)

#276
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the problem is that most realtors want it that way. I live in Austin, and the push for a few years now has been to have a "silent market" where a buyer picks a "full service" realtor (AKA full commission), and gets a week or so jump on properties being listed in the MLS. This gives them a better chance to get the property before the MLS hordes descend and start bidding it up. The part I've never understood is…

Perhaps a pocket listing isn’t paying the Buyers Agent half of the fee, so saving 3% right there. Depending on the market that may be worth it versus going to the broad market and having to pay both sides of the commission.

Pocket listings still pay both halves but are often discounted down to e.g. 5% instead of 6%. The agent tries to spin the situation as a discount to the buyer and seller as they "save" 1% on commission. One of the main justifications for why the agent "deserves" a 3% cut of the deal is that they are working to represent you and safeguard your interests. That can't happen when they're representing both sides. It's as perverse as a plaintiff and a defendant using the same lawyer to save 1% on legal fees.

In a given market area there are literally thousands of real estate agents. Even with a 1% discount off the top, what do you think the odds are that the best offer on the market just so happens to be a listing that your real estate agent just so happens to be the listing agent for?

Real estate is a racket.

Re: Zillow CEO: startups trying to disrupt real estate commissions will fail (2012)

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "That being said, the National Association of Realtors (NAR) and their local branches are the definition of a cartel." NAR was actually investigated by the federal government (FTC i think? ), who concluded much the same, but lobbying buried the report and nothing came of it. MLS's maintain power by strictly controlling access to information. they have the most up-to-date and the most detailed information about prop…

Nothing came of it? The whole Virtual Office Website (VOW) thing got created.. before meetings NAR and RESO intone legalese about encouraging competition. There's a lot of fear that the FTC will step back in and do something. With the level of MLS balkanization, innovation has a bunch of high hurdles.

VOW, and IDX also. The whole reason that sites like Zillow, Redfin, etc. exist is because of the (successful) lawsuit against NAR causing them to open up their data to third party companies.

I worked for a real estate company building an online real estate service since before the creation of VOW/IDX. Prior to that, the way we got access was through my boss's own real estate brokerage account with the state's main MLS. We expanded to support more MLS's in the area and each one was a huge pain in the ass. We had to have customers who were members of that MLS BEFORE they would give us access to their data. They would limit the data we had access to as much as they possibly could, and had absurd rules about what could/could not be displayed publicly, as well as privately when members of our customers' sites were logged in. It became much easier to get access to the data after the VOW/IDX implementations rolled out at each MLS.

Re: Zillow CEO: startups trying to disrupt real estate commissions will fail (2012)

#278
post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the key functions of a broker is to provide plausible deniability, such as screening potential buyers who you think might waste your time or to avoid accusations of discrimination.

Brokers have to present all offers.

They may have to present all offers, but they don't have to present them in the same light. When I've been presented offers they DEFINITELY tell me about the strength of the buyer, what kind of financing, and what the deal terms are signalling. This stuff definitely matters to me because I've had to hassle with cash-poor buyers before and it just isn't worth the time, even in a buyers market.

Re: Zillow CEO: startups trying to disrupt real estate commissions will fail (2012)

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Good" real estate agents are interested in moving as many houses as quickly as they can, to gain as much vig revenue as possible. "Good" real estate agents from the buyers perspective would be slowing down sales, reducing the overall price they make a percentage on anyway (which is why fixed rate for a "class" of real estate would work better) as a disincentive. Why would a real estate agent dissuade someone from bu…

> Why would a real estate agent dissuade someone from buying something? Story time! When I was looking at buying my (now current) house, I had a realtor on my side, and my wife actually found the listing (no knock on the realtor there - my wife was just that on top of things) and the house was actually for sale from a realtor at the same company as my realtor. As we were doing the inspection, I had questions about th…

More than just not wanting to know about problems agents want to avoid any liability for when the home inspector misses something and it comes back to cost the buyer after the sale. Agents nowadays, at least at the franchise that I am familiar with don't want to recommend a particular inspector, they'll list a few decent ones and leave all of those decisions up to the buyer. They also try to avoid being present while the home inspector is there. There's just no reason to take on any added liability when there's no reward for it.

That's also not just hypothetical either, we've been sued a couple times as a brokerage because one of our agents recommended a particular inspector who missed major termite damage.

Re: Zillow CEO: startups trying to disrupt real estate commissions will fail (2012)

#280
If you're selling, and the realtors in your state haven't outlawed it, going with a fee for service broker can save you a lot of money. A fee for service broker will charge fixed fees for each service they provide, for example, a listing on MLS. In our market, this worked great last time we sold. Being able to write up the MLS listing ourselves we realized how lazy/incompetent most realtors are. We touted a commission for the buyer broker (they typically get half of the standard 5%) in the listing and the house sold quickly.

I don't mind paying a commission to the buyer broker - they are the ones that do most of the work in most markets.

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