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Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down

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Re: Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down

#121

Post by Buttons840 »

JamesBarney wrote: post #97
rbritton wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s more accurate to say the Democrats (and many of their supporters) don’t want a Trump success. Most or all of the current players that were in office in 2006 voted for the Secure Fence Act of 2006, and the same applies to the 2013 Senate immigration overhaul. It has little to do with the subject of the budget allocation and everything to do with obstructing (for better or worse depending on your own views…

The way to view this and previous shutdowns is to blame the party that isn't willing to vote for the CR. That's the party taking the government hostage to achieve their political goals.

What does "CR" mean?

Re: Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down

#122

Post by jakeogh »

pbourke wrote: post #78
snek wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it's horrible and childlish. Politicians use hundreds of thousands of citizens as bargaining chips instead of just figuring out how to work together. If it didn't happen so often, I would imagine there would be rioting. Unfortunately the status quo is to shut down the government whenever you don't get the exact budget you want.

Please don’t make the claim that “both sides” are responsible for or prolonging this shutdown. The House passed a series of bills that are essentially the same as the ones given unanimous consent in the Senate last month in order to provide for government funding. Those bills passed by the House include substantial funding for border security. All sides are in agreement about the necessity of border security. A singl…

No worries, it will be the Dems that "end" the shutdown when they fund the peaches.

Re: Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down

#123

Post by Buttons840 »

yourapostasy wrote: post #120
lazulicurio wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would love to hear others' ideas on how Democrats can force Trump's hand on this shutdown issue, as this is certainly an interesting political problem that will be studied in the future by students of politics. I'd love to be proved wrong, but I think the Democrats have backed themselves into a no-win situation. If they give in on the wall, it's an outright Republican victory. If they don't give in on the wall and…

Good points, you also reminded me of another claim I've seen about how as soon as the Federal government "really starts to shut down", mayhem will ensue, like food safety issues will arise and cause the GOP to abruptly about-face. It is more nuanced than that, and the GOP can release highly-targeted funding bills that paint the DNC into a corner. If air traffic controllers start to quit for example, and air travel st…

I have a theory that many Republicans in congress don't really care about the wall, because the Senate unanimously passed a spending bill the day before the shutdown began, and that spending bill did not include wall funding. If that's the case, then those Republicans would be reluctant to compromise, because any compromise involve them making a concession in exchange for the wall, which they don't really care about. Or maybe it is that they didn't care about it, but now they do? After all, the political climate is different now than before the shutdown, and politicians do care about the political climate.

Re: Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down

#124

Post by battywombat »

Buttons840 wrote: post #121
JamesBarney wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way to view this and previous shutdowns is to blame the party that isn't willing to vote for the CR. That's the party taking the government hostage to achieve their political goals.

What does "CR" mean?

"Continuing Resolution". It's a bill to keep funding the government at the rate determined by the last past budget.

Re: Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down

#125

Post by ngcc_hk »

clairity wrote: post #70
mehrdadn wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people just aren't affected visibly, and I guess people don't usually riot about things that don't anger them. Not sure how those that are affected are getting by. To me these shutdowns (and lack of pay) should be bringing down the US government's credit rating.

since the US dollar is the world's reserve currency you probably don't want the credit rating dropping even if you're not an american. the shutdown is maddening but we seem to have come to accept it as a normal escalation tactic. what concerns me more is the move away from norms to laws restraining the executive branch. that can potentially reduce the effectiveness of future presidents and shift the careful balance o…

The resilience is a surprise but great so far as an institution. For how long and whether there is a last x on camels back ...

Re: Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down

#126

Post by aaronbrethorst »

Spivak wrote: post #114
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if you enjoy eating food or flying. Or are dependent on SNAP benefits. Or are a Native American. Or are trying to use constituent services with a freshman member of Congress. https://www.npr.org/2019/01/09/683642605/how-is-the-shutdown...

Last I checked, grocery stores and restruants are still open and planes are still in the sky. The remainder are people who are on the invisible end of society. This isn't to say that the shutdown isn't a big deal but it should be grounded in the reality of who and what it actually affects. The typical American could, at this point, realistically not notice anything is happening if it weren't for the news.

grocery stores and restruants are still open

I'm not saying they're closed; I'm talking about food inspections. Remember the romaine scare from November? Guess what won't be flagged early during this government shutdown?

While people should take seriously the recent outbreak of E. coli food poisoning that triggered the alert, the fact that it was flagged early shows that the agency once known as the CDC deserves its upgraded name as the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-pe...

-----

Also, let's talk about this:

The remainder are people who are on the invisible end of society... it should be grounded in the reality of who and what it actually affects.

44 million Americans use SNAP benefits. 5 million Americans are of indigenous descent. 800,000 Americans employed by the federal government are not getting paychecks. Some ostensibly large percentage of the 3.7 million federal contractors are not getting paychecks. That's about one-sixth of the population of the United States. Maybe typical Americans should pay more attention to their neighbors and friends.

Re: Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down

#127

Post by dragontamer »

Buttons840 wrote: post #121
JamesBarney wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way to view this and previous shutdowns is to blame the party that isn't willing to vote for the CR. That's the party taking the government hostage to achieve their political goals.

What does "CR" mean?

CR means to pass last year's budget (for only a few months), so that you can get more time to debate without people's paychecks getting lost.

Trump + Republicans have veto'd the CR, meaning they want the shutdown to put more pressure for the Wall.

Re: Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down

#128

Post by maratd »

dragontamer wrote: post #81
maratd wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Serious question for US members of HN: how do you tolerate these shutdowns? I realize this is being portrayed in the media as a total government shutdown, but that's really not the case. The US has multiple levels of government. Federal, State, County, and Municipal. State, County, and Municipal governments (which are the ones that really provide essential services), are operating normally. For the Federal governme…

> For the Federal government, any self-sufficient or quasi-self-sufficient operations (like the USPTO, USPS, etc.) are unaffected. Any operations that already had their budgets passed are unaffected. Wrong. The Federal Budget was done in steps. Only 25% of the government was under debate on Dec 2017, so only that 25% of the Federal Government was shutdown. In 2014 (IIRC), there WAS a total government shutdown for a f…

> Only 25% of the government was under debate on Dec 2017, so only that 25% of the Federal Government was shutdown.

That's what I said.

> 25% of the federal government is roughly 800,000 workers who have gotten a $0.0 paycheck yesterday, while most of them were forced to keep working.

I calculated off of a million, so that's still below that.

> The fact that airports keep working are because these TSA Agents + Air Traffic controllers have decided that keeping the airports open are more important than getting a paycheck.

Pretty sure they're required to keep working by law?

> Salute them next time you see one and thank them for their sacrifice.

What? What sacrifice? They're going to get paid when this is over. They also took the job knowing something like this happens every other year. This is not new.

Re: Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down

#129

Post by thaumasiotes »

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #126
Spivak wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last I checked, grocery stores and restruants are still open and planes are still in the sky. The remainder are people who are on the invisible end of society. This isn't to say that the shutdown isn't a big deal but it should be grounded in the reality of who and what it actually affects. The typical American could, at this point, realistically not notice anything is happening if it weren't for the news.

grocery stores and restruants are still open I'm not saying they're closed; I'm talking about food inspections. Remember the romaine scare from November? Guess what won't be flagged early during this government shutdown? While people should take seriously the recent outbreak of E. coli food poisoning that triggered the alert, the fact that it was flagged early shows that the agency once known as the CDC deserves its…

> Maybe typical Americans should pay more attention to their neighbors and friends.

None of the groups you listed are uniformly distributed across society. "Six social groups each containing 0 people on food stamps, and one social group in which people are mostly on food stamps" is closer to reality than "seven social groups each of which have about 1/7 of the membership on food stamps".

The whole point of living in a nice neighborhood is that none of your neighbors or friends are on food stamps.

Re: Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down

#130

Post by dragontamer »

maratd wrote: post #128
dragontamer wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For the Federal government, any self-sufficient or quasi-self-sufficient operations (like the USPTO, USPS, etc.) are unaffected. Any operations that already had their budgets passed are unaffected. Wrong. The Federal Budget was done in steps. Only 25% of the government was under debate on Dec 2017, so only that 25% of the Federal Government was shutdown. In 2014 (IIRC), there WAS a total government shutdown for a f…

> Only 25% of the government was under debate on Dec 2017, so only that 25% of the Federal Government was shutdown. That's what I said. > 25% of the federal government is roughly 800,000 workers who have gotten a $0.0 paycheck yesterday, while most of them were forced to keep working. I calculated off of a million, so that's still below that. > The fact that airports keep working are because these TSA Agents + Air Tr…

> What? What sacrifice? They're going to get paid when this is over.

A delay'd paycheck is certainly a sacrifice for a number of people. Not everyone has emergency funds saved up, and a lot of people live paycheck to paycheck.

> They also took the job knowing something like this happens every other year. This is not new.

This is one of the few times a shutdown has lasted long enough to actually cause a missed paycheck. The last cases where a shutdown caused a missed paycheck was 2014, and before that 1995.

Its certainly not "normal".

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