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Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down

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Re: Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down

#81

Post by dragontamer »

maratd wrote: post #57
bartread wrote: post #17

Serious question for US members of HN: how do you tolerate these shutdowns? I mean, apart from the loss of services, including websites, it seems like many federal workers aren't being paid. Will they be paid back after the shutdown impasse is resolved or is the money they didn't/couldn't earn lost to them. This seems unfair and, in the meantime, how are they supposed to go about their lives? Overall it seems potenti…

> Serious question for US members of HN: how do you tolerate these shutdowns? I realize this is being portrayed in the media as a total government shutdown, but that's really not the case. The US has multiple levels of government. Federal, State, County, and Municipal. State, County, and Municipal governments (which are the ones that really provide essential services), are operating normally. For the Federal governme…

> For the Federal government, any self-sufficient or quasi-self-sufficient operations (like the USPTO, USPS, etc.) are unaffected. Any operations that already had their budgets passed are unaffected.

Wrong. The Federal Budget was done in steps. Only 25% of the government was under debate on Dec 2017, so only that 25% of the Federal Government was shutdown.

In 2014 (IIRC), there WAS a total government shutdown for a few days.

> We're talking about a fraction of the total government here. There's more drama here than anything else.

25% of the federal government is roughly 800,000 workers who have gotten a $0.0 paycheck yesterday, while most of them were forced to keep working.

Most noticably: Boarder Patrol Agents, TSA Agents, US Air Marshals, and Air Traffic Control agents. They ALL got $0.0 paychecks.

IRS is also affected: the entirety of the IRS got $0 paycheck yesterday.

The fact that airports keep working are because these TSA Agents + Air Traffic controllers have decided that keeping the airports open are more important than getting a paycheck. Salute them next time you see one and thank them for their sacrifice. Airports literally can't function without air-traffic control, and TSA have a thankless job.

Re: Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down

#82

Post by admax88q »

dragontamer wrote: post #79
ok_coo wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife came home yesterday and told me that her work said if the shutdown continues in late February - March that they'll probably have to cut her position along with others at her workplace (they're federally-funded). If that happens, I will likely be forced to quit my current job as well and find a higher paying job to help compensate while she looks for new work. I'm currently paid under market rate, but I love m…

His base wants the temper tantrum and the shutdown. The fact of the matter is, Trump hasn't lost any ground in his approval rating over this yet. With that being said, Democrats don't want the wall. They were pretty much elected to stop the wall and have a huge majority in the House. I don't see how this gets resolved at all. To have the shutdown end, the House (Democrats), Senate (Republicans), and President have to…

> House (Democrats), Senate (Republicans), and President have to agree on a singular solution

The House and Senate can override the president with a super majority. They don't technically need the president's approval.

However getting a super majority in the senate to override a veto will be difficult as most Republicans see loyalty to Trump as important for re-election.

Re: Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down

#83

Post by ggggtez »

rplst8 wrote: post #25
baddox wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government departments are legally required to budget for the possibility of a shutdown, which means they have to keep the money around that they will use to shut down. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antideficiency_Act

Yes, but this coupled with the fact they shut down things that don't otherwise really require a human to actively working proves that it's all just a political ploy.

Bandwidth costs money. It's likely technically cheaper to serve a 404 than to serve the data. Besides that, it's not what costs less, it's what LOOKS like it costs less.

Re: Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down

#84

Post by IanCal »

guiambros wrote: post #73
rplst8 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but this coupled with the fact they shut down things that don't otherwise really require a human to actively working proves that it's all just a political ploy.

> .. proves that it's all just a political ploy. Security maintenance, keeping databases up, monitoring the various systems, risk of DDoS, answering to users' inquires, bandwidth... - it requires real money to keep any production site live. Given that these folks are basically working without pay, I don't blame them for wanting to put a cover page saying "Sorry, we're down", and call it a day.

Many are not legally allowed to work for free or be ask people to work (I forget which). The range of people allowed to work (even for free) is pretty limited to dealing with loss of life or property.

Re: Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down

#85

Post by willstrafach »

aboutruby wrote: post #2

From reddit: > This article is overly hyperbolic. Some obscure subdomains of government websites are serving expired x509 certificates. They're not down and this definitely doesn't compromise the encryption that protects any login credentials. Anyway, it is embarassing to see certificate renewal is not automated - it's something any good sysadmin would have set up. https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/aeps41/…

> They're not down and this definitely doesn't compromise the encryption that protects any login credentials

That is precisely what it does. Serving an invalid certificate and requiring user click-through allows for a man in the middle attacker to inject their own certificate without further error and will therefore be able to intercept login credentials.

Re: Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down

#86

Post by theartfuldodger »

lowercased wrote: post #40
TomK32 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've dealt with expired ssl certs on api servers run by school districts and no, they don't automate this stuff, neither do i for my own servers, shamefully.

i did some work for my state, and I couldn't automate ssl stuff, because the dept who handled the certs didn't provide for automation to be consumed - I got emailed certs (IIRC - been a couple of years now). By contrast, for most projects, I have standard cert/le automatically updating every 2-3 months. LE was just becoming a thing a couple years ago, and they'd never heard of it. I'm not saying they should all use L…

I work with many large health and insurance companies, although we recommend that this be automated and are fully capable, internal IT staff at the companies seem to need to complicate the matter for job security and require they are involved although we do all the certain, often they are delayed in action due to either incompetence or other job duties.

Not surprising to me to see this is the case for local and federal govt too.

Re: Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down

#87

Post by lazulicurio »

yourapostasy wrote: post #55
atonse wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we can stop being obtuse? The senate can end this by passing a budget and override the president's veto. They're choosing not to.

> They're choosing not to. For sound political reasons. You may not like those reasons, but they aren't being "obtuse" in the sense they do not understand what they are doing because they lack the wits to comprehend. Minimizing your opponent with those kinds of terms risks you underestimating them. The "base" that voted in most of the Senate voted in Trump. At the federal level, they pretty much count as a single vot…

> Would love to hear others' ideas on how Democrats can force Trump's hand on this shutdown issue, as this is certainly an interesting political problem that will be studied in the future by students of politics.

I'd love to be proved wrong, but I think the Democrats have backed themselves into a no-win situation. If they give in on the wall, it's an outright Republican victory. If they don't give in on the wall and the shutdown continues, it's a victory for the "small government" part of the Republican base, who will point to the shutdown as proof that the federal government can be safely reduced in size.

And I agree with you that it's unlikely the Democrats will be able to appeal to the economic situation of the affected workers to override a veto. The Democratic leadership has been terrible at forging a consistent message other than "we don't like Trump". They've let themselves be branded as the "social issues party" and let the Republicans brand themselves as the "economy party"; which means they're at a severe disadvantage when it comes to economic issues.

Sure, there may be a racist component to the immigration debate, but most peoples' concerns are primarily economic: "they're" going to take "our" jobs[1]. I also can't think of anything the Democrats could give up as a bargaining chip. Concessions on the ACA would alienate their own base. They'd look disingenuous agreeing to additional tax cuts after making such a big deal of the previous cuts. I'm not sure with what else they could negotiate.

[1] Here the racism is more tribalism than outright "I'm superior because of my race"

Re: Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down

#88

Post by ta8347 »

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #77
thaumasiotes wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Serious question for US members of HN: how do you tolerate these shutdowns? > Overall it seems potentially damaging and disruptive for any organisation or individuals with dependencies on the government. Most people do not have dependencies on the government. You could live through a shutdown without noticing it had happened if not for the news coverage.

Not if you enjoy eating food or flying. Or are dependent on SNAP benefits. Or are a Native American. Or are trying to use constituent services with a freshman member of Congress. https://www.npr.org/2019/01/09/683642605/how-is-the-shutdown...

"Most people"

Re: Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down

#89

Post by dragontamer »

admax88q wrote: post #82
dragontamer wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His base wants the temper tantrum and the shutdown. The fact of the matter is, Trump hasn't lost any ground in his approval rating over this yet. With that being said, Democrats don't want the wall. They were pretty much elected to stop the wall and have a huge majority in the House. I don't see how this gets resolved at all. To have the shutdown end, the House (Democrats), Senate (Republicans), and President have to…

> House (Democrats), Senate (Republicans), and President have to agree on a singular solution The House and Senate can override the president with a super majority. They don't technically need the president's approval. However getting a super majority in the senate to override a veto will be difficult as most Republicans see loyalty to Trump as important for re-election.

> The House and Senate can override the president with a super majority. They don't technically need the president's approval.

Senate is the place where bills die. You've got not only the Republican-controlled majority, but Democrats can filibuster anything they disagree with in the Senate.

So to pass the Senate normally, you need to have Republicans agree, Democrats "Not Protest".

A Supermajority Senate override of a veto is 67 votes (out of 100). Frankly, I don't see that ever happening in the current political climate.

Re: Government shutdown: TLS certificates not renewed, many websites are down

#90

Post by ta8347 »

dragontamer wrote: post #81
maratd wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Serious question for US members of HN: how do you tolerate these shutdowns? I realize this is being portrayed in the media as a total government shutdown, but that's really not the case. The US has multiple levels of government. Federal, State, County, and Municipal. State, County, and Municipal governments (which are the ones that really provide essential services), are operating normally. For the Federal governme…

> For the Federal government, any self-sufficient or quasi-self-sufficient operations (like the USPTO, USPS, etc.) are unaffected. Any operations that already had their budgets passed are unaffected. Wrong. The Federal Budget was done in steps. Only 25% of the government was under debate on Dec 2017, so only that 25% of the Federal Government was shutdown. In 2014 (IIRC), there WAS a total government shutdown for a f…

TSA is useless
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