Start with a Website, Not a Mobile App • Hacker News Board

Re: Start with a Website, Not a Mobile App

#121

Post by jdietrich » Fri, Jan 04, 2019, 5:51 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #97

shams93 wrote: post #2

Given the fact that most people are already maxed out on apps on their device with just things like facebook and youtube, you're going to be hard pressed to get people to install your app just to try it out. With a progressive web app if they like your app they can add it to their device home screen without installing via the app store and without using up space on their device. Also don't need to pay Apple $100 a ye…

Given the fact that most people are already maxed out on apps on their device with just things like facebook and youtube, you're going to be hard pressed to get people to install your app just to try it out. https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/01/app-store-caps-record...

The list of top grossing apps paints a rather different and rather unflattering picture of the app store economy.

https://www.apple.com/itunes/charts/top-grossing-apps/

Re: Start with a Website, Not a Mobile App

#122

Post by pjmlp » Fri, Jan 04, 2019, 5:51 PM UTC

egeozcan wrote: post #74

Do the PWAs have the option to be shared to when added to home-screen? Like, can you share to them from other apps?

On UWP and ChromeOS you can do everything if the PWA is packaged via the store, as they get access to native APIs.

Re: Start with a Website, Not a Mobile App

#123

Post by zanny » Fri, Jan 04, 2019, 5:52 PM UTC

tenaciousDaniel wrote: post #69

have_faith wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With a progressive web app if they like your app they can add it to their device home screen Does anyone even know they can do that? I've never seen anyone do it "in the wild". Would love to see any stats around usage of pwa's added to home screen.

My guess is that it's rare. Hell, I didn't even know I could do it until I was developing a PWA. I've never seen a website that offers it. It would be very nice if phones put that feature front-and-center. My guess is that they sideline it so the web can't compete with their native apps.

It really reeks of the same kind of anticompetitive behavior that got MS in trouble twenty years ago.

Apple is way worse in this regard, but Google is still incentivized to keep at least PWAs from being first class citizens on Android because they don't get their app store sales cuts or microtransaction money from them. And at least on Android you can install other browsers.

People consider the hegemony of Chrome to be the premier threat to the open web but I keep feeling iOS Safari is the real drag. Apple is so heavily incentivized to sabotage web tech that could encroach on their app store revenue.

Re: Start with a Website, Not a Mobile App

#124

Post by funkydata » Fri, Jan 04, 2019, 5:52 PM UTC

y-c-o-m-b wrote: post #17

shams93 wrote: post #2

Given the fact that most people are already maxed out on apps on their device with just things like facebook and youtube, you're going to be hard pressed to get people to install your app just to try it out. With a progressive web app if they like your app they can add it to their device home screen without installing via the app store and without using up space on their device. Also don't need to pay Apple $100 a ye…

> Given the fact that most people are already maxed out on apps on their device with just things like facebook and youtube. I don't even have those apps. If I did, my battery would be dead in a couple of hours. If I need to use those platforms, I do it through a web browser and usually I use a different browser (e.g. duckduckgo) isolated from my other browsing habits.

Does Duckduckgo makes a browser now? Or do you mean that like most of non geeky folks you access websites not by typing an url in the address bar of a browser but instead by going through a search engine (in this instance Duckduckgo)?

Re: Start with a Website, Not a Mobile App

#125

Post by jdietrich » Fri, Jan 04, 2019, 5:53 PM UTC

sgt wrote: post #116

johannes1234321 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of filtering is that? The fact that there is (hopefully) no malware? - A browser should prevent that as well and has similar failure rate as app review. The app store doesn't tell me anything about whether it's useful or of high quality or anything. From my perspective many apps are single tab browsers with additional spying capabilities.

For one, you have a chance of actually finding quality native apps. Web apps are not completely optimal no matter how you try to sell it. I have nothing specifically against hybrid or web apps (they have their place), but speaking from personal experience I've had most luck with apps that were (1) native (2) cost a few pennies. I say this wearing the consumer or end-user hat. As a developer, I also prefer writing nat…

>For one, you have a chance of actually finding quality native apps.

Really? I can't recall ever finding a useful app through the app store. It's so littered with junk apps and deceptive copycats that discovery is a miserable experience.

Re: Start with a Website, Not a Mobile App

#126

Post by tracker1 » Fri, Jan 04, 2019, 5:53 PM UTC

endorphone wrote: post #34

shams93 wrote: post #2

Given the fact that most people are already maxed out on apps on their device with just things like facebook and youtube, you're going to be hard pressed to get people to install your app just to try it out. With a progressive web app if they like your app they can add it to their device home screen without installing via the app store and without using up space on their device. Also don't need to pay Apple $100 a ye…

We've been hearing the same pitch for literally years. Heck, I've made some of them myself: "This is it, people! Native apps have been rendered unnecessary!" No PWA competes with a native experience. Not performance wise, not usability wise, and ultimately for the developer not even development wise. It may still make a lot of sense, and there are a lot of arguments for web apps, but the enthusiasm in this discussion…

Well, the React Native experience is very similar to React for web. So I'm not sure the developer experience is THAT far off. Also, for line of business, mostly CRUD apps a PWA is probably a better place to start. You get iOS, Android, Mac, Linux and Windows in one place with one codebase, with no install.

Frankly, I'm far less likely to install any app than I am to use a web app. In fact it pisses me off when I can't do updates from my desktop. No, it isn't a technical limit, it's more of an I don't want more crap running in the background sending notifications. I disabled both FB and Pandora notifications because they were annoying me and many users don't even know how. I'd rather not even go there to begin with.

If I use a web app that is very useful, there are times I'll see if there's a native app for mobile. If there isn't, I'm okay with that.

Right now, I'm working on an application that is web based and is for desktop use. I'm able to use react + material-ui and a few other modules and it's been going very smoothly. I can't say I've ever had a better experience with desktop app development, or mobile. ymmv.

Re: Start with a Website, Not a Mobile App

#127

Post by funkydata » Fri, Jan 04, 2019, 5:53 PM UTC

y-c-o-m-b wrote: post #47

fireattack wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

duckduckgo has a browser now?

Pick your poison: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.duckduckgo... https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/duckduckgo-privacy-browser/i...

I did not know they made one. Thanks!

Re: Start with a Website, Not a Mobile App

#128

Post by rimliu » Fri, Jan 04, 2019, 5:53 PM UTC

kkhire wrote: post #85

clarky07 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how so? click a button and download to device? now you have an icon that the user sees every day. How is the web better than that?

there's a big difference between typing a URL into a web browser & downloading an app: 1. go to the app store 2. search for it and find the right one 3. make sure you have the right amount of space for it 4. download it 5. place it on the 5th screen of your phone 6. never see it

You can invent the same convuted path for everything. Ok, for the PWA: go to Google. Find the pwa you want. Make sure you did not exceed your data cap. Figure out how to add it to home screen. It will end app at screen #5 and will never be found again.

How is that easier? What if you want to sell your app?

Real scenario for native apps is much more simple: you get either the link to the app or the banner. Tap on it, tap get, tap open. That’s it.

Btw, there is an app offloading, which provides you space by getting rid of the app you don’t really use. And for the missing space argument to be even a little bit valid you must talk about huge apps, which probsbly means they provide functionality you could not replicate with a PWA.

Re: Start with a Website, Not a Mobile App

#129

Post by NightlyDev » Fri, Jan 04, 2019, 5:53 PM UTC

ransom1538 wrote: post #105

shams93 wrote: post #2

Given the fact that most people are already maxed out on apps on their device with just things like facebook and youtube, you're going to be hard pressed to get people to install your app just to try it out. With a progressive web app if they like your app they can add it to their device home screen without installing via the app store and without using up space on their device. Also don't need to pay Apple $100 a ye…

After years of experience: 0) Native means you get notifications: APNS, GCM. 1) If you don't go native, you go SEO. SEO is hard.

Web has had notifications for years too.

Re: Start with a Website, Not a Mobile App

#130

Post by menckenjr » Fri, Jan 04, 2019, 5:54 PM UTC

neonhat wrote: post #68

wvenable wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is wishful thinking with no logical argument behind it. WebAssembly replaces JavaScript but the rest of the experience (a web browser) is exactly the same. What would compel users to care?

> This is wishful thinking with no logical argument behind it. 1. A web app developed using WebAssembly offers performance indistinguishable from that of a native app. 2. Since the web app offers native performance, there's practically no need for a native app to exist in the first place. Why should developers waste their time developing for multiple platforms when a single mobile app works flawlessly? 3. This is gre…

1. I'll believe it when I see it. 2. The platforms have different assumptions and affordances, and trying to homogenize the experience by splitting the difference (like you seem to suggest) will leave users in the uncanny valley. 3. No, it's great for web developers who want to claim they do "native development" without actually learning how to do native development.