Start with a Website, Not a Mobile App • Hacker News Board

Re: Start with a Website, Not a Mobile App

#61

Post by untog » Fri, Jan 04, 2019, 5:17 PM UTC

mcny wrote: post #31

sjroot wrote: post #23

The real answer to this question? (Surprise!) It depends. I have worked on a side project for the last year or so that will have a website and a mobile application. It has social elements, so ultimately I decided to prioritize the mobile application, because that is where users have access to their contacts, and do most of their communication with their friends and family. There are, of course, other business ideas t…

> If you are an Apple engineer and can help get that shipped, I will buy you a nice dinner. If you're an Apple recruiter, hire me so I can help ship it! :) Not that I know anything not known publicly but I suspect the reason Apple iOS Safari does not have Web Push API is not because they lack developer resources to write the code to get it done. Apple is under tremendous pressure to increase revenue from its "service…

I don't think that's really true, because Apple has strengthened PWAs in a lot of ways in recent iOS releases.

I personally suspect it has a lot to do with waking up a service worker outside of the browser lifecycle - given how aggressively iOS monitors apps no longer running in foreground I can imagine that being quite a hurdle to overcome (without compromising the reason for doing it in the first place).

Re: Start with a Website, Not a Mobile App

#62

Post by freehunter » Fri, Jan 04, 2019, 5:17 PM UTC

have_faith wrote: post #38

shams93 wrote: post #2

Given the fact that most people are already maxed out on apps on their device with just things like facebook and youtube, you're going to be hard pressed to get people to install your app just to try it out. With a progressive web app if they like your app they can add it to their device home screen without installing via the app store and without using up space on their device. Also don't need to pay Apple $100 a ye…

> With a progressive web app if they like your app they can add it to their device home screen Does anyone even know they can do that? I've never seen anyone do it "in the wild". Would love to see any stats around usage of pwa's added to home screen.

I run a website where I get asked quite often to make it into a mobile app, and I reply by showing how to add it to the device's homescreen and not need an app. Never ever ever in the few dozen times I've had this conversation has anyone ever actually done it. In fact most responses to that suggestion have been overwhelmingly negative. They want an app, even though it'd just be a wrapper around the site with no added features, they want an app.

Re: Start with a Website, Not a Mobile App

#63

Post by clarky07 » Fri, Jan 04, 2019, 5:20 PM UTC

agildehaus wrote: post #8

shams93 wrote: post #2

Given the fact that most people are already maxed out on apps on their device with just things like facebook and youtube, you're going to be hard pressed to get people to install your app just to try it out. With a progressive web app if they like your app they can add it to their device home screen without installing via the app store and without using up space on their device. Also don't need to pay Apple $100 a ye…

To add a progressive web app to the home screen on iOS, doesn't the user have to use the share menu (and even then, it's buried a bit -- the user has to page the share options at least once to find it)? There's no way to display a prompt to add it, like with Chrome/Firefox on Android? That's how it was the last time I checked, and it was enough for my employer to say no.

Yeah it is massively worse user experience than installing an app from the app store. I feel like anyone suggesting it is better has an agenda of some sort. It's objectively worse in every way for the user. Suggesting the $100 is a barrier to entry is absolutely laughable. If you are going to talk about money talk about the 30% cut they take. That's really the only reasonable argument in favor of them.

Re: Start with a Website, Not a Mobile App

#64

Post by egeozcan » Fri, Jan 04, 2019, 5:20 PM UTC

PaulHoule wrote: post #60

I am moving towards "Windows app first"; Windows still has dominant market share among Desktop users. You might impress investors and developers with Mac and Linux support, but far too many people are developing for platforms where the users are not and wondering why their stuff isn't catching on.

I've been trying to find time to give Avalonia (a cross-platform desktop GUI kit for .NET Core) a try.

https://ptupitsyn.github.io/Cross-Platform-DotNet-UI/

Re: Start with a Website, Not a Mobile App

#65

Post by sgt » Fri, Jan 04, 2019, 5:21 PM UTC

"No one wants to download apps anymore" I stopped reading there. The major advantage of the App Store (primarily for consumer apps though) is the fact that there's some kind of filtering at place. If I find a quality app, I want to actually pay for it. In fact, if it's a good app - then I prefer to pay, as it often ensures some kind of continuity in the app's lifecycle.

Re: Start with a Website, Not a Mobile App

#66

Post by clarky07 » Fri, Jan 04, 2019, 5:21 PM UTC

csours wrote: post #59

cntlzw wrote: post #21

How about start with a product that people would actually use? If it is a website, fine. If it is a mobile app, fine. Don't sacrifice business opportunities because of early tech choices.

To me, you have to have a really damn good reason to start with an app. Distribution is hell.

how so? click a button and download to device? now you have an icon that the user sees every day. How is the web better than that?

Re: Start with a Website, Not a Mobile App

#67

Post by freehunter » Fri, Jan 04, 2019, 5:22 PM UTC

PaulHoule wrote: post #60

I am moving towards "Windows app first"; Windows still has dominant market share among Desktop users. You might impress investors and developers with Mac and Linux support, but far too many people are developing for platforms where the users are not and wondering why their stuff isn't catching on.

Windows OS has a dominant market share yes, but do those people download and install a lot of desktop applications? Especially on a platform like Windows, where a browser can do almost anything a native app can do?

Re: Start with a Website, Not a Mobile App

#68

Post by neonhat » Fri, Jan 04, 2019, 5:23 PM UTC

wvenable wrote: post #39

neonhat wrote: post #4

Mobile web apps are the future, thanks to WebAssembly.

This is wishful thinking with no logical argument behind it. WebAssembly replaces JavaScript but the rest of the experience (a web browser) is exactly the same. What would compel users to care?

> This is wishful thinking with no logical argument behind it.

1. A web app developed using WebAssembly offers performance indistinguishable from that of a native app.

2. Since the web app offers native performance, there's practically no need for a native app to exist in the first place. Why should developers waste their time developing for multiple platforms when a single mobile app works flawlessly?

3. This is great for users because the app is highly performant, universally accessible, and doesn't require installation.

Re: Start with a Website, Not a Mobile App

#69

Post by tenaciousDaniel » Fri, Jan 04, 2019, 5:24 PM UTC

have_faith wrote: post #38

shams93 wrote: post #2

Given the fact that most people are already maxed out on apps on their device with just things like facebook and youtube, you're going to be hard pressed to get people to install your app just to try it out. With a progressive web app if they like your app they can add it to their device home screen without installing via the app store and without using up space on their device. Also don't need to pay Apple $100 a ye…

> With a progressive web app if they like your app they can add it to their device home screen Does anyone even know they can do that? I've never seen anyone do it "in the wild". Would love to see any stats around usage of pwa's added to home screen.

My guess is that it's rare. Hell, I didn't even know I could do it until I was developing a PWA. I've never seen a website that offers it.

It would be very nice if phones put that feature front-and-center. My guess is that they sideline it so the web can't compete with their native apps.

Re: Start with a Website, Not a Mobile App

#70

Post by icebraining » Fri, Jan 04, 2019, 5:25 PM UTC

0xCMP wrote: post #7

There is one side of me that wishes more things were Mobile Apps. On the other hand, it's hard to argue that worse is better here and that any founder should focus on Web unless it's not possible to do it on the web (yet). I'd much prefer a native app (or actually feels native; Well done RN is good enough for me), but the cost of creating and maintaining one is often too high when you don't know what will work. As a…

Is it a matter of UI? I find it interesting that the "web app with native UI" model never took on. There were a few tries (e.g. XUL), and now Expo seems to be a version of that for RN (though focused on testing), yet for various - seemingly circumstantial - reasons it never became a fully fledged alternative to browser apps and installed apps.