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Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype

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Re: Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype

#101

Post by elliekelly »

bobcostas55 wrote: post #77
baybal2 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in Singapore for 2.5 years. I mostly remembered him for his psychomumbling of later part of his life. Calling him "doing all things right" is a big stretch. The biggest error of him was to cling to power long after his mind went going. Singapore's economic success was pretty much a meme too. The median income is only ~20000 USD a year, less than half of the economic product per capita. There were three epochs…

>The median income is only ~20000 USD a year, less than half of the economic product per capita. This[0] publication puts median household income at $108k SGD or 79.5k USD (and that would actually be higher if adjusted for PPP). The median household income for the US is 59k USD. [0] https://www.singstat.gov.sg/-/media/files/publications/house...

It's also my understanding that almost everyone in Singapore lives in some sort of government-subsidized housing. The system is structured such that it's difficult to get an apartment or buy a house unless you're married so many typical Singaporean households have several adults earning an income under the same roof.[1]

[1]https://www.economist.com/asia/2017/07/06/why-80-of-singapor...

Re: Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype

#102

Post by javagram »

rsynnott wrote: post #85
ed_balls wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really 1 in a million? There are other pseudo democracies that are doing well e.g. Liechtenstein

While it has problems, Liechtenstein is much closer to a normal democracy than Singapore (At least these days). Currently, four parties have seats, with no party having an absolute majority.

Didn’t the prince win a referendum to give him real monarchical powers though? The BBC summary from 2003 says “The people of Liechtenstein have voted to make their prince an absolute monarch again.” Although this description may be a bit exaggerated.

I assume the parent comment is in reference to the prince, not the parliament.

Re: Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype

#103

Post by threatofrain »

baybal2 wrote: post #51
anvandare wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>that one Dictator in a million Also called an enlightened despot; In the Eastern -Chinese Legalism tradition- a 明君 "míngjūn". There have been instances of them throughout history. But like you said, the problem is usually what happens once the ruler is gone. It's never a (long-term) good idea to have the success of a group dependant on a single person. A political system that produces mediocre-but-stable success (ov…

>In the Eastern -Chinese Legalism tradition- Oh my, can I ask you where did you pick that up? It feels to me that an average Western person nowadays has been taught more of that stuff than a well studied Chinese.

You’re assuming this person isn’t Chinese?

Re: Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype

#104

Post by tootie »

nindalf wrote: post #15

I see people in this thread surprised that this is happening in Singapore, a “modern” country. Singapore is certainly wealthy, the population is highly educated, institutions aren’t corrupt, all of which is great. However, the political system resembles a democracy only superficially. Every election since 1965 has been won by the same party. It is inconceivable that the People’s Action Party wouldn’t win an election…

It's not just that it's wealthy, the people are pretty free there. I visited recently and there's nothing there that indicates it's anything other than a first-world democracy. Media and internet are not censored. It's socially conservative compared to Western Europe or the US, but not draconian at all. The authoritarian streak is there, but it's not pervasive like China.

Re: Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype

#106

Post by mikeash »

jenscow wrote: post #75
mikeash wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Democracy is awful in all sorts of ways. Its one major advantage is non-violent succession, something other systems really struggle with. Dictatorships can be great for a whole, but eventually you get a mad dictator or two people who both think they should be the dictator and it all falls apart.

So, perhaps people should be able to vote for their dictator? :)

That can work, until the dictator decides he doesn’t want to give up power and changes the rules. You need a system that makes it really hard to change the fundamental shape of the system itself, which isn’t compatible with dictators.

Re: Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype

#107

Post by nailer »

hkt wrote: post #35
OscarCunningham wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's possible to imitate their trade policy without copying their lack of civil rights.

The main proponents of doing this are a guy who bought a water cannon to use on protestors in London, a man so Catholic he'd vote down abortion, and a bunch of people who are mostly OK with letting people who are fleeing war drown in the Mediterranean. I do not hold out much hope.

> The main proponents of doing this are a guy who bought a water cannon to use on protesters in London

Boris Johnson purchased a cannon to use on rioters - the vast majority of which had no concern about the police killing the armed drug dealer in question. Water cannons are effective for use in riots, as we've seen recently in Paris. My main concern is Sadiq Kahn who sold them, leaving us again vulnerable in a repeat incident.

> a bunch of people who are mostly OK with letting people who are fleeing war drown in the Mediterranean

Who is that? The vast majority of people entering the UK without visas do so via Calais, and the vast majority of those are economic migrants.

Re: Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype

#108

Post by baybal2 »

threatofrain wrote: post #103
baybal2 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In the Eastern -Chinese Legalism tradition- Oh my, can I ask you where did you pick that up? It feels to me that an average Western person nowadays has been taught more of that stuff than a well studied Chinese.

You’re assuming this person isn’t Chinese?

I do. I can not imagine an educated Chinese person these days going at that, moreover somebody from mainland China who is not a party member.

Re: Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype

#109

Post by nailer »

EliRivers wrote: post #50
nbevans wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They use water cannon in the rest of Europe, and even tear gas. What's the problem? They should have had a water cannon for the London Riots in 2012 - and that is why they purchased some. Which the current mayor has selfishly used for political points by selling them off for barely 10k. He will be praying they aren't ever needed.

The government specifically chose not to authorise their use. https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/home-secretarys-oral-...

Theresa May, a political opponent of Boris Johnson, specifically chose not to authorise their use after they had been purchased, as an attack on Johnson.

Re: Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype

#110

Post by WillPostForFood »

ColanR wrote: post #97
jessaustin wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like an argument for smaller nations?

Welcome to feudalism.

Like Singapore: Norway, Finland, and Denmark all are around a population of 5 million, are well run, and don’t appear feudal. HN knows well, scaling is hard.
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