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Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype

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Re: Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype

#31

Post by chillacy »

nindalf wrote: post #15

I see people in this thread surprised that this is happening in Singapore, a “modern” country. Singapore is certainly wealthy, the population is highly educated, institutions aren’t corrupt, all of which is great. However, the political system resembles a democracy only superficially. Every election since 1965 has been won by the same party. It is inconceivable that the People’s Action Party wouldn’t win an election…

“Which is great” is an understatement. Looking at the other southeast Asian all the countries in ASEAN one starts to realize that Singapore could have been a lot worse off. Instead the GDP per capita is comparable to the United States, and crime is much lower.

LKY strikes me as both highly intelligent and pragmatic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8GwmsLXOx8

But I guess only time will tell if the system is as good as the man himself. If I had to guess, I’m skeptical.

Re: Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype

#32

Post by eeeeeeeeeeeee »

oth001 wrote: post #19
nindalf wrote: post #15

I see people in this thread surprised that this is happening in Singapore, a “modern” country. Singapore is certainly wealthy, the population is highly educated, institutions aren’t corrupt, all of which is great. However, the political system resembles a democracy only superficially. Every election since 1965 has been won by the same party. It is inconceivable that the People’s Action Party wouldn’t win an election…

Similar to America where Republicans and Democrats are really no different from each other in the grand scheme of things.

This tired and ignorant take is so frustrating to continue to see, especially after the Trump win.

Re: Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype

#33

Post by anvandare »

nindalf wrote: post #15

I see people in this thread surprised that this is happening in Singapore, a “modern” country. Singapore is certainly wealthy, the population is highly educated, institutions aren’t corrupt, all of which is great. However, the political system resembles a democracy only superficially. Every election since 1965 has been won by the same party. It is inconceivable that the People’s Action Party wouldn’t win an election…

>that one Dictator in a million

Also called an enlightened despot; In the Eastern -Chinese Legalism tradition- a 明君 "míngjūn". There have been instances of them throughout history. But like you said, the problem is usually what happens once the ruler is gone. It's never a (long-term) good idea to have the success of a group dependant on a single person. A political system that produces mediocre-but-stable success (over several generations) seems preferable to one that produces a superior-but-brief success.

Re: Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype

#35

Post by hkt »

OscarCunningham wrote: post #34
hkt wrote: post #20

This the country my country's idiot politicians want to model us after, post-Brexit. I despair.

It's possible to imitate their trade policy without copying their lack of civil rights.

The main proponents of doing this are a guy who bought a water cannon to use on protestors in London, a man so Catholic he'd vote down abortion, and a bunch of people who are mostly OK with letting people who are fleeing war drown in the Mediterranean.

I do not hold out much hope.

Re: Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype

#36

Post by cinquemb »

chillacy wrote: post #31
nindalf wrote: post #15

I see people in this thread surprised that this is happening in Singapore, a “modern” country. Singapore is certainly wealthy, the population is highly educated, institutions aren’t corrupt, all of which is great. However, the political system resembles a democracy only superficially. Every election since 1965 has been won by the same party. It is inconceivable that the People’s Action Party wouldn’t win an election…

“Which is great” is an understatement. Looking at the other southeast Asian all the countries in ASEAN one starts to realize that Singapore could have been a lot worse off. Instead the GDP per capita is comparable to the United States, and crime is much lower. LKY strikes me as both highly intelligent and pragmatic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8GwmsLXOx8 But I guess only time will tell if the system is as good a…

> Looking at the other southeast Asian all the countries in ASEAN one starts to realize that Singapore could have been a lot worse off.

I find this very funny in reality because as someone from the US living in SE asia for nearly 4 years, I pretty much prefer everywhere else in SE asia than Singapore, though I guess if you look at from a monetary standpoint I can understand.

Re: Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype

#37

Post by ponyfleisch »

cinquemb wrote: post #36
chillacy wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Which is great” is an understatement. Looking at the other southeast Asian all the countries in ASEAN one starts to realize that Singapore could have been a lot worse off. Instead the GDP per capita is comparable to the United States, and crime is much lower. LKY strikes me as both highly intelligent and pragmatic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8GwmsLXOx8 But I guess only time will tell if the system is as good a…

> Looking at the other southeast Asian all the countries in ASEAN one starts to realize that Singapore could have been a lot worse off. I find this very funny in reality because as someone from the US living in SE asia for nearly 4 years, I pretty much prefer everywhere else in SE asia than Singapore, though I guess if you look at from a monetary standpoint I can understand.

why?

Re: Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype

#38

Post by cinquemb »

ponyfleisch wrote: post #37
cinquemb wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Looking at the other southeast Asian all the countries in ASEAN one starts to realize that Singapore could have been a lot worse off. I find this very funny in reality because as someone from the US living in SE asia for nearly 4 years, I pretty much prefer everywhere else in SE asia than Singapore, though I guess if you look at from a monetary standpoint I can understand.

why?

Over regulated daily life (though very well run) combined with being very culturally bland automaton like outside of very few pockets, mixed with Israeli militarism applied to its own people, just doesn't feel very welcoming compared to say Thailand, Malaysia or Indonesia.

Some of my wife's family has lived there and Indonesia for a while, and it is agreed that out of all the places in SE asia, it is a good place to make money and potentially for schooling when young, they plan on moving when retiring.

Re: Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype

#39

Post by ponyfleisch »

cinquemb wrote: post #38
ponyfleisch wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why?

Over regulated daily life (though very well run) combined with being very culturally bland automaton like outside of very few pockets, mixed with Israeli militarism applied to its own people, just doesn't feel very welcoming compared to say Thailand, Malaysia or Indonesia. Some of my wife's family has lived there and Indonesia for a while, and it is agreed that out of all the places in SE asia, it is a good place to…

Fair enough, but every city in malaysia feels like post apocalyptic singapore, infrastructure wise. Indonesia - not much quality of life overall.

Re: Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype

#40

Post by hkt »

flag_bcz_mad wrote: post #23

Why does everyone assume democracy is good? It clearly wasn’t necessary for Singapore. A well run “dictatorship” is much better than your average democracy. I would concede that a democracy filled with the right people is the best but in reality it is very rare to come upon a population that is actually ready to govern itself. People generally have extremely reductionist and incorrect opinions about such things in my…

History, largely.

Robust democracies are the best defenders of people's rights over time. They're the best self righting mechanism that is available for a nation-state when its economy, civil liberties, and living standards get out of whack. It is also the only way to reconcile a society with large numbers of powerful competing interest groups. It is certainly not perfect but it is, as the old saying goes, better than anything else.

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