Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype • Hacker News Board

Re: Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype

#81

Post by teddyh » Fri, Jan 04, 2019, 1:21 PM UTC

flag_bcz_mad wrote: post #23

Why does everyone assume democracy is good? It clearly wasn’t necessary for Singapore. A well run “dictatorship” is much better than your average democracy. I would concede that a democracy filled with the right people is the best but in reality it is very rare to come upon a population that is actually ready to govern itself. People generally have extremely reductionist and incorrect opinions about such things in my…

“Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time…”

— Winston Churchill

Re: Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype

#82

Post by rsynnott » Fri, Jan 04, 2019, 1:25 PM UTC

anvandare wrote: post #33

nindalf wrote: post #15

I see people in this thread surprised that this is happening in Singapore, a “modern” country. Singapore is certainly wealthy, the population is highly educated, institutions aren’t corrupt, all of which is great. However, the political system resembles a democracy only superficially. Every election since 1965 has been won by the same party. It is inconceivable that the People’s Action Party wouldn’t win an election…

>that one Dictator in a million Also called an enlightened despot; In the Eastern -Chinese Legalism tradition- a 明君 "míngjūn". There have been instances of them throughout history. But like you said, the problem is usually what happens once the ruler is gone. It's never a (long-term) good idea to have the success of a group dependant on a single person. A political system that produces mediocre-but-stable success (ov…

> But like you said, the problem is usually what happens once the ruler is gone.

Or, even worse, when they get old and start losing their faculties.

Re: Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype

#83

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jan 04, 2019, 1:26 PM UTC

dorian-graph wrote: post #79

nindalf wrote: post #15

I see people in this thread surprised that this is happening in Singapore, a “modern” country. Singapore is certainly wealthy, the population is highly educated, institutions aren’t corrupt, all of which is great. However, the political system resembles a democracy only superficially. Every election since 1965 has been won by the same party. It is inconceivable that the People’s Action Party wouldn’t win an election…

> Surely a de facto dictatorship like this shouldn’t be so wealthy and successful. Turns out Lee Kuan Yew is that one Dictator in a million who managed to do pretty much everything right. This made me think of some scripture. > Nevertheless, if it were possible that ye could always have just men to be your kings it would be well for you to have a king. (Mosiah 23:8) The preceding verse talks about how everyone should…

[deleted]

Re: Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype

#84

Post by api » Fri, Jan 04, 2019, 1:27 PM UTC

nindalf wrote: post #15

I see people in this thread surprised that this is happening in Singapore, a “modern” country. Singapore is certainly wealthy, the population is highly educated, institutions aren’t corrupt, all of which is great. However, the political system resembles a democracy only superficially. Every election since 1965 has been won by the same party. It is inconceivable that the People’s Action Party wouldn’t win an election…

It constantly shocks me how many hackers worship Singapore. I know many.

I mean it's not anywhere close to the worst place. It has a good economy and better rule of (incredibly strict) law than many. But I just find it shocking to see it held up as a near utopia and see hacker friends of mine sharing glitzy Singapore propaganda videos on Facebook.

Re: Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype

#85

Post by rsynnott » Fri, Jan 04, 2019, 1:31 PM UTC

ed_balls wrote: post #66

nindalf wrote: post #15

I see people in this thread surprised that this is happening in Singapore, a “modern” country. Singapore is certainly wealthy, the population is highly educated, institutions aren’t corrupt, all of which is great. However, the political system resembles a democracy only superficially. Every election since 1965 has been won by the same party. It is inconceivable that the People’s Action Party wouldn’t win an election…

Is it really 1 in a million? There are other pseudo democracies that are doing well e.g. Liechtenstein

While it has problems, Liechtenstein is much closer to a normal democracy than Singapore (At least these days). Currently, four parties have seats, with no party having an absolute majority.

Re: Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype

#86

Post by torstenvl » Fri, Jan 04, 2019, 1:32 PM UTC

jenscow wrote: post #75

mikeash wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Democracy is awful in all sorts of ways. Its one major advantage is non-violent succession, something other systems really struggle with. Dictatorships can be great for a whole, but eventually you get a mad dictator or two people who both think they should be the dictator and it all falls apart.

So, perhaps people should be able to vote for their dictator? :)

I mean, that's almost how the longest-running (partial) democracy in the world is run - the Roman Catholic Church.

Re: Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype

#87

Post by rsynnott » Fri, Jan 04, 2019, 1:33 PM UTC

swebs wrote: post #8

sloanedavids wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s weird. I thought they were trying to be a modern country?

Many modern countries have heavy restrictions on freedom of speech. The United States is the exception, not the rule.

No modern democracy has Singapore-type restrictions on speech, unless you take the loosest possible definition of democracy (ie one expansive enough to encompass Singapore).

Re: Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype

#88

Post by twic » Fri, Jan 04, 2019, 1:33 PM UTC

baybal2 wrote: post #58

avar wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Surely a de facto dictatorship like this shouldn’t be so wealthy and successful[...] It's also worth noting that the entirety of Singapore just barely exceeds the area enclosed by Washington DC's beltway. Whatever their form of government, small city states are always going to be able to avoid many of the pitfalls of larger countries. There's effectively only one level of government to deal with, and the despot is…

The better comparison for the nation should be Luxembourg, and Andorra, not other Asian countries. > Whatever their form of government, small city states are always going to be able to avoid many of the pitfalls of larger countries. There's effectively only one level of government to deal with, and the despot is always going to live down the road from you and need to use the same public services as you, so you don't…

> both countries' economies are one trick ponies

What is Singapore's trick? Their economy looks moderately diversified to me - GDP comes 13.3% from finance, 19.2% from manufacturing, 17.6% from wholesale and retail trade, 14.8% from "Business Services", and 35% from other stuff:

https://www.tablebuilder.singstat.gov.sg/publicfacing/create...

Re: Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype

#89

Post by michaelscott » Fri, Jan 04, 2019, 1:34 PM UTC

jenscow wrote: post #75

mikeash wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Democracy is awful in all sorts of ways. Its one major advantage is non-violent succession, something other systems really struggle with. Dictatorships can be great for a whole, but eventually you get a mad dictator or two people who both think they should be the dictator and it all falls apart.

So, perhaps people should be able to vote for their dictator? :)

This is how the Romans thought of dictators, yes. The dictator was elected by nomination and then given supreme authority over state affairs, although usually only in a specific area of governance and with severe term limits.

The last guy who said "screw term limits" was ol' Julius Caesar, but he was iced not long after on the Ides of March and the office of dictator was abolished.

The title of dictator has taken on a negative connotation in the recent past for obvious reasons, but the idea of a competent or even brilliant man being given total control in order to accomplish a specific task for the good of a country is certainly something to consider regarding governance.

Re: Singapore activist found guilty of hosting ‘illegal assembly’ via Skype

#90

Post by gerbilly » Fri, Jan 04, 2019, 1:42 PM UTC

I would never go to Singapore.

They'd probably end up whipping me a hundred times for something I did without even being aware of it. [1]

IMHO that whole country should serve as a counterexample to all the rest.

Humans really are good at making life miserable for each other aren't they?

[1] Maybe farting in public, or wearing my shoes on the wrong feet or whatever.