Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common • Hacker News Board

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#101

Post by heavenlyblue » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 6:08 PM UTC

DonnyV wrote: post #80

esotericn wrote: post #15

I'd like to read more about the history of the people in the article. The biggest issue as far as I can tell is that it's easy to 'lose' at any stage. You can make a ton of decisions starting from about age 15-20 that influence your degrees of freedom at age 40 (in the article there's a family of 3 that seemingly have little savings, for example). If you were born to a non wealthy household, the reality is that you s…

^^^ This 110%. I grew up in a poor family. Had friends that were well off and didn't have to think much about the future. I noticed early on that I just didn't have that luxury. Fortunately I was aware enough at an early age that every decision I make has to be a good one. I can't afford any failures. I don't think thats a good a way to become an adult or raise a society. By 25 I was at a good place but not without i…

I'm 27.

You know, it's funny - most of my friends who were "well enough" are the same ones who'd blame people for not working enough thus not being "successful". Modern conservatives, if you like.

Nah, I am well enough because I was intelligent enough to see beyond the horizon of my abilities back then (you could also say I was idealistic enough to be reckless and believe in that distant future).

Most of the poor people of my background never had that chance, to see beyond that horizon. They gave up earlier than they should have - but can you blame them?

Because as I've already said in my first paragraph those who are "well enough" in the first place, today are as blind to their privilege as much the poor are blind to what they could have if they worked enough.

I am in a good place now. Probably even better than those who were "well enough", but the price for that is the realisation of how lucky I am and how much I wish the world wasn't this way.

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#102

Post by eyko » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 6:09 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #64

imustbeevil wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the vast majority of cases having a child is optional. This perfectly illustrates the problem the GP brings up. People have no concept of what agency is.

Oh for God's sake. Have a child, get dumped/divorced, now you're a single parent. Parents are supposed to be omniscient? God already has a job (and parenting didn't work out so good then either)

Or your partner has a fatal disease or accident.

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#103

Post by refurb » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 6:12 PM UTC

fromthestart wrote: post #83

vailprogrammer wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't think that you are lucky to have been born into an upper middle class family, without any serious psychological issues? Someone born with mental problems is automatically an immoral, bad person? > Somehow other cultures tend to place virtue in the development of discipline, a personal responsibility which can mitigate all kinds of external erosions of self control. But what about all of the social safety ne…

>You don't think that you are lucky to have been born into an upper middle class family, without any serious psychological issues? You know nothing of my psychology or my personal struggles. It is infuriating to hear people tell me how easy I had it simply because now my parents are well off. Kindly take your classist prejudice elsewhere. My parents were lower middle class until about the time I went off to college.…

I’ve noticed this on HN has well. In response to the perceived “it’s all your fault” Republican message, a lot of HN has swung to the opposite side with “none of this is your fault!”.

Spent all your money on junk? Victim of advertisers.

Lost your money in investments? Victim of big banks.

Spent your money on booze? Victim of genetics.

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#104

Post by zeta0134 » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 6:13 PM UTC

One of the simplest and most effective things I did recently was to split my bank account into two checking accounts, and one savings account. I carry two debit cards with me that are visually distinct. One is for day to day purchases, and the other is meant for bills and the occasional unusual expense, like maybe tools for a surprise home repair.

Each time I get paid (every two weeks) I have my employer deposit the sum into the bills account, and I've set up a recurring transfer on the same day into the spending account. I essentially pay myself a portion of my paycheck. I allow myself to swipe my spending card for just about anything: gas, eating out, games, clothing, etc. But if I decide to use my bills card, that's a conscious choice. I know, right there in the moment, that I'm breaking my own rule.

It's kinda shocking how effective this was. Once I had enough of a mental barrier to make me aware of my spending habits, I suddenly felt like I was in control. Once I had a significant buffer built up in bills, and could start reliably skimming the extra into savings, all the financial stress also started to melt away. "It's okay. I've got a bit of a buffer if stuff goes wrong. I can do this."

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#105

Post by zozbot123 » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 6:13 PM UTC

kenmicklas wrote: post #93

kurthr wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why without tight controls on lending/debt Universal Basic Income will just lead to similarly desperate outcomes subsidized by the state.

I think the bigger issue than lending is that if it's not funded with a land value tax then all the increase in income will be eaten up in rent.

The opposite is the case. High rent is a localized problem (mostly found in relatively dense cities) and UBI would go a lot farther in a low-cost-of-living area where rents are low as well. So, people who have no use for living in the city (not hyper-productive or anything) would gradually opt to spread out and rents would fall.

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#106

Post by ianleeclark » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 6:13 PM UTC

learnstats2 wrote: post #94

Living paycheck-to-paycheck can be representative of good choices being made (and I'd guess it is, in most cases). Most people can't afford everything they optimally need while minimising their risk, and so have to manage this by optimising as much as they are able within their paycheck. People with limited resources are going to hit a barrier somewhere, and spending your income is often going to be the least bad bar…

> Most people can't afford everything they optimally need while minimising their risk, and so have to manage this by optimising as much as they are able within their paycheck.

Not being able to afford basic necessities-in the most wealthy nation in the world-indicates something being broken.

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#107

Post by matis140 » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 6:18 PM UTC

SmirkingRevenge wrote: post #28

As someone who didn't learn the very basics of personal finance at the optimal point in life, I feel like it should be part of our standardized education. I'd like to think that would make things at least marginally better. Another thing I'd love to see, would be for banks to fundamentally reorient themselves to be their customer's advocates/financial guardians, instead of being yet another party encouraging people t…

Another change, but one much harder to manage is that many of the products people buy today have no value left after 2-4 years and some both have no value after 2-4 years and do things degrading their performance forcing you to again purchase an expensive item that does nothing to build wealth. Vehicles, electronics, home appliances all sit at something like a max of 8-11 years of use and loose 30-50% of their value as soon as purchased. Now that we are making smart everything's I can see the life of home appliances dropping. Some of this is intentional. Some necessity. I have a refrigerator from the 70's that works great, but I know I could reduce my power bill by getting a more modern one, however I am worried that upgrading will land me with something more likely to fail. certainly not something that will run 50 years with no issues.

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#108

Post by apo » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 6:20 PM UTC

National data on the paycheck-to-paycheck experience is flimsy, but a recent report from the Federal Reserve spotlights the prevalence of extra-tight budgets: Four in 10 adults say they couldn’t produce $400 in an emergency without sliding into debt or selling something, according to the 2017 figures.

This quote links to a report from the Federal Reserve, which contains this gem:

When asked about their finances, 74 percent of adults said they were either doing okay or living comfortably in 2017—over 10 percentage points more than in the first survey in 2013.

https://www.federalreserve.gov/publications/files/2017-repor...

In other words, the survey finds tat 4/10 people can't cough up $400, yet 3/4 say things are fine for them personally.

Later in the report:

To assess actual financial literacy, respondents are asked five basic questions about finances (table 34).

The most missed question (42% of responded answered correctly):

Considering a long time period (for example, 10 or 20 years), which asset described below normally gives the highest returns [Stocks, Bonds, Savings accounts, Precious metals] [Correct answer is Stocks]

I suspect that the view of things being fine financially may be a case of ignorance is bliss.

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#109

Post by RickJWagner » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 6:21 PM UTC

We are mostly tech people here, right? Given that, I have a suggestion. We should all be smart, compensated well, etc.

If you worry about things like this, study what's been said by Warren Buffet, Jack Bogle, and Ray Dalio. These guys have won the game and explain clearly how anyone (yes anyone) can slowly accumulate wealth. It really does work.

The site Bogleheads.org is full of helpful ideas and people that will guide anyone that asks nicely.

This problem cannot be solved by politics, but rather by education. Happy (and prosperous) 2019 to all!

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#110

Post by WalterSear » Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 6:25 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #64

imustbeevil wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the vast majority of cases having a child is optional. This perfectly illustrates the problem the GP brings up. People have no concept of what agency is.

Oh for God's sake. Have a child, get dumped/divorced, now you're a single parent. Parents are supposed to be omniscient? God already has a job (and parenting didn't work out so good then either)

> Parents are supposed to be omniscient?

The majority of single parents haven't fallen from some perfect baby making situation. They make a risky, selfish choice, usually after the fact.

You shouldn't breed if your situation isn't stable. You shouldn't breed if your partner isn't 100% committed to having children. You shouldn't breed if you are living paycheck to paycheck already.

Babies aren't magical. Parents aren't inherently beyond reproach.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/11/books/review-in-hillbilly...