Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record • Hacker News Board

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#181

Post by zanny » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 2:57 AM UTC

labster wrote: post #134

wallflower wrote: post #12

It is not mentioned in this particular article and my teacher friends say that dealing with parents is a constant pain. Of course, not all parents are a pain. Only a few. Teachers are not in the profession to listen to why little high school age Johnny did not get an A on his paper, not the least because you, the parent, helped him write that paper.

Teachers should stop assigning tasks that necessitate parent participation, then. I was assigned to write a novella in sixth grade, for crying out loud. I like creative writing now, but I didn't back then, and the assignment sure didn't help.

Theres plenty of research showing how homework is often of negative value.

It, like the unhealthy hours of school for teenagers, is a product of parents wanting babysitters in many ways more than they wanted well educated children. Homework can be busywork to keep kids occupied when parents don't want to have to try to inspire them productively the third of the day they aren't in school or (should be) sleeping.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#182

Post by kbenson » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 2:58 AM UTC

cowsandmilk wrote: post #41

kbenson wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Especially now that she has to post everyone's grades online, instantly emails roll in when a student didn't perform as well as the parent expected. Not to take away from your point, which I think has merit, from the other side of the spectrum as a parent that has a child that struggled mightily to not fail for the first couple years of high school, the amount that teachers screw up the online grading is incredible…

You're describing here a different problem, which I know from talking to teachers also causes them stress. The people who make the software cause this problem, not the teachers themselves. They often don't have a way to avoid this and they aren't the ones deciding what software is used.

I assume the simple way to avoid it would be to not create an assignment in the system ready for grades to be entered until you actually have grades to enter. While a way to put an assignment in a state that it doesn't affect overall grades would be good and annoying if missing, it doesn't seem like something that's impossible to work around.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#183

Post by chii » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 2:58 AM UTC

sjroot wrote: post #146

nsriv wrote: post #3

https://outline.com/ZuA8TG

Last time I saw a paywalled article, someone commented and mentioned the idea of (1) prohibiting those sites or (2) automatically redirecting to an outlined version.

Personally, I rather just not read paywalled articles, or I would have paid if the publication is high quality enough.

Using a workaround to circumvent the paywall seems too shady, because if the contents are worth reading, they should be worth paying the asking price.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#184

Post by 8bitsrule » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 2:59 AM UTC

allcentury wrote: post #14

There's much more to this story. My mother, a high school calculus teacher for the last 22 years is so ready to retire. I didn't think my mom would ever retire, she spends countless hours coming up with unique lesson plans for the kids - they usually involve games, real world use cases and many ah-ha moments. She lives for those moments when a kid lights up when they understand the value of what their learning. Now t…

"What extra credit can she do to make this an A?"

"She can't, because that's the grade she earned in the time alloted. The moving finger, having writ, has moved on.

"However, I'm confident that, with Janie's capabilities, a little more effort from her and help from you, she can easily demonstrate a higher level of mastery and the consequent benefits from longer-term retention.

"Princeton will NOT be a picnic, and developing excellent habits at this time will pay back many-fold. This A- is a vote of confidence that there is room and talent for improvement."

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#185

Post by ineedasername » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 3:02 AM UTC

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #168

ineedasername wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's fair for everyone because they all have the same opportunity. And I do drop the lowest grade :)

Just to be clear, I don't think there's anything wrong with giving extra credit assignments, if the teacher chooses. But the availability of extra credit should be clear to everyone, not given out because a specific student (or parent) demanded it.

Oh, absolutely: it's part of my sylabus, everyone is aware. Perhaps a bit paradoxically, it makes giving final grades much easier. If a student gets a bad grade, it's because they ignored all opportunities for improvement and I fail them with some sadness, but no regret.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#186

Post by caseysoftware » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 3:06 AM UTC

MarkMc wrote: post #154

allcentury wrote: post #14

There's much more to this story. My mother, a high school calculus teacher for the last 22 years is so ready to retire. I didn't think my mom would ever retire, she spends countless hours coming up with unique lesson plans for the kids - they usually involve games, real world use cases and many ah-ha moments. She lives for those moments when a kid lights up when they understand the value of what their learning. Now t…

Wait - so teachers in Massachusetts are not protected from lawsuits by their union or the schools? That's messed up

Serious question.. if the union isn't defending the teachers from bs lawsuits for legitimately doing their jobs, what is it doing?

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#187

Post by ntsplnkv2 » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 3:07 AM UTC

ineedasername wrote: post #35

allcentury wrote: post #14

There's much more to this story. My mother, a high school calculus teacher for the last 22 years is so ready to retire. I didn't think my mom would ever retire, she spends countless hours coming up with unique lesson plans for the kids - they usually involve games, real world use cases and many ah-ha moments. She lives for those moments when a kid lights up when they understand the value of what their learning. Now t…

Okay, I get that's more work, and sounds like a hassle. So this isn't a criticism of your mom. But on the A- and extra credit issue, I never understood the point of rigid grading schemes. I've taught at a college level, and I always give students the chance to improve their grades if they want to put in additional work. To do otherwise seems like saying "nope, even if you learn more and improve to the point of A-leve…

The problem isn't giving final grades.

In life there are things you won't always get second chances for.

The problem is the absurd college process that way overemphasizes clearly inflated grades in a ridiculous race to get into college. It's a shame what kids have to go through these days.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#188

Post by Nasrudith » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 3:08 AM UTC

Agathos wrote: post #21

allcentury wrote: post #14

There's much more to this story. My mother, a high school calculus teacher for the last 22 years is so ready to retire. I didn't think my mom would ever retire, she spends countless hours coming up with unique lesson plans for the kids - they usually involve games, real world use cases and many ah-ha moments. She lives for those moments when a kid lights up when they understand the value of what their learning. Now t…

> The teachers union in Massachusetts made all the teachers sign liability waivers and arbitration waivers if a lawsuit happens. Wait what? I thought the union was supposed to at least pretend to look out for the teachers' interests.

Some teachers are more equal than others. In all seriousness US labor unions have been infamous for going blatantly being gerontocracy on the ground they have been paying dues for the longest.

Given stuff like 'contractually they are bound to lay off multiple newer teachers before they lay off the one a year from retirement'.

While screwing over your loyal members isn't good treating the new ones like dirt is also a death spiral move - I know that everyone in High School who worked a job with a union hated it - the consensus was that they were paying a cut and openly screwed over in favor of everyone else.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#189

Post by ntsplnkv2 » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 3:09 AM UTC

ineedasername wrote: post #166

scarface74 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the real world, you don’t get a chance to get “extra credit work” when you don’t do your job at the level the job expects of you. Why should students be coddled instead of being prepared for the real world? I have a high school student who is always getting better grades because of “extra credit” and “make up tests”. I cringe every time he does it.

In the real deal world, sure you do: ever not get something right the first try at work? Ever have to work longer hours because a project ran over the expected time? The real world doesn't have all of the arbitrary limits we see in the modern education system.

Schools very rarely have 1 test per semester, and if you fail you fail.

Often times there is homework, multiple tests, projects, etc.

If you fail your job multiple times I highly doubt you will be progressing in your career. Just because you aren't fired doesn't mean you aren't losing out in some way.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#190

Post by jogjayr » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 3:11 AM UTC

robertAngst wrote: post #110

djrobstep wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's sad is that all this desperate competition by parents to improve their kid's grades is zero-sum: A noisy but pointless rearrangement of positions on the socio-economic ladder. One kid getting into Princeton means another misses out. Very little of it results in actual useful learning or eventual public benefit.

As someone who went to a University you never heard of, I'm the highest paid in my group. I wont forget this in the future for my children. Your skills are more important than the prestige of your school.

> Your skills are more important than the prestige of your school.

I'd disagree slightly. All of Mark Zuckerberg's college roommates are billionaires or half-billionaires - mostly because they were his roommates. Obviously they brought their own skills to the table but there existed other people in the world at that time with those skills too. These specific people got to be in the rocket ship when it was on the ground, because they were at Harvard. Otherwise, they'd (probably) only have very successful careers, instead of their current wealth and status.

I think having a "prestige" school on your resume opens some doors far more easily.