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What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

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Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#71

Post by devereaux »

henrikschroder wrote: post #64
devereaux wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the cost of a checkup at the doctor for a foreign tourist? (who I assume will get results also within 24h, and be informed about upfront costs if it's the law) What's the medican income in Belgium? In the US? I just don't understand how people in HN of all place complain about the costs of healthcare. I believe America has a better system, especially if you are in the hacker mindset (and with IT salaries!). Ju…

You're basically saying "fuck you, I got mine". Yes, medicine is a business, an industry, and obeys the same rules as other businesses. But the goods it produces, "healthcare", are not like other goods. Demand is infinite, supply is scarce, and on a national level it makes sense to make sure it is distributed on a needs basis instead of a can-afford basis, because that leads to a healthier and more productive populat…

> it makes sense to make sure it is distributed on a needs basis

"to everyone according to their needs" - that reminds me of some political movement!

Joke aside, I just disagree. It is not the "FYGM" you said. It is reasoning about the problem. Some countries have higher costs. Some have lower cost. Specialization of labor is wonderful - everyone gets richer, even if a country has a net advantage in productivity in all sectors. That's economic 101.

There is no reason for healthcare supply to be scare. It takes money. Instead of spending thousands of dollars in the US (or your Euros in Belgium), spend them in another country where it cost less.

It will also create incentive to build more healthcare supply there -- good for the residents of this country, and good for you too.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#72

Post by devereaux »

swasheck wrote: post #67
devereaux wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the cost of a checkup at the doctor for a foreign tourist? (who I assume will get results also within 24h, and be informed about upfront costs if it's the law) What's the medican income in Belgium? In the US? I just don't understand how people in HN of all place complain about the costs of healthcare. I believe America has a better system, especially if you are in the hacker mindset (and with IT salaries!). Ju…

> (and with IT salaries!). The point of the article was that salary is no longer an indicator of healthcare availability. > Medecine (sic) is a business just like any other. This is the ideology that functions as the crux of the matter. In the US, medicine is a business from which people involved should earn profit. Healthcare (and health, by extension) is not a right. In other places, I suspect it's the opposite. In…

> The point of the article was that salary is no longer an indicator of healthcare availability.

And this is why I comment. This is wrong! You should not have to stretch on healthcare if you know how to spend your money.

Get treated abroad. It's as simple as that.

EDIT: You may lose your job. It's a consequence of life. You will still have saved a bunch of money when taking into count the savings on healthcare and the lower cost of living abroad

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#73

Post by mikestew »

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #7

I've tried to understand the circumstances preventing socialized medicine in america. I understand there are arguments against socialized medicine, but they make no sense to me on their face (eg. the idea that long wait times would occur, when wait times for USA and wait times for other first world countries with socialized medicine isn't very differe. The idea that socialized medicine would cause less medicine resea…

I've tried to understand the circumstances preventing socialized medicine in america.

Just like Dorothy in The Wizard of Oz, the answer was staring you in the face this whole time: "socialized". You say that magic combination of "social" and any of "ist", "ism", "ized", and g-ddamn it, my Granddad didn't fight Mussolini in the war just to the let the socialists take over. I swear to $DEITY that I do not exaggerate that amongst many, the mere utterance is assumed to end the discussion.

"Well, that sounds a lot like socialism."

"Hmm, when you put it that way, I suppose we have nothing further to discuss."

It is literally the reason we didn't get socialized medicine when Truman suggested it in the 1940s, because the AMA stuck the S-word onto it at the start of the Cold War.

More annoying is that many of that ilk that I personally know would be hard-pressed to give an even basic, accurate definition of what socialism is (almost guaranteed it'll come out sounding like communism). It's as if someone many years ago said, "anything labelled 'socialism' is bad", and entire nation shrugged its shoulders and said, "okay" without ever looking up what they were on about.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#74

Post by malvosenior »

josho wrote: post #48
Asooka wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit ironic that those of us who grew up in actual communism understand the difference between government- planned healthcare and government- funded healthcare better than Americans. Even as the communist regime was being torn apart, I don't remember anyone wanting to take down the health system. It's still chronically underfunded and many people also purchase third-party health insurance in order to have acces…

Yes, that's why I think the word 'propaganda' is fitting, because for a lot of older Americans the 'C' word was bad full stop and didn't merit any further discussion on what parts were bad and what parts may make some sense.

Why would we trust the government that just fed us the propaganda you're talking about to run a healthcare system in our interest?

> "In fact I think we have the millennials to thank as they grew up after the cold war and did not experience much of the propaganda that older generations did, so they are more open to policies like universal healthcare."

So they haven't seen the negative consequences of too much government power and thus are too quick to call for government solutions.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#75

Post by TomMckenny »

olivermarks wrote: post #31
baddox wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disaster compared to what? The insane number of medical bankruptcies in the United States?

It's worth noting that the modern US usage of the term 'socialized medicine' was invented, amplified and promoted by a pr firm for the for-profit medical insurance industry. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialized_medicine#History_of...

No surprise really, the word "socialism" has been used to attack any pro consumer / pro employee policies since the first red scare 100 years ago. Indeed up to the '70s, even civil rights was painted as "commie".

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#76

Post by NicoJuicy »

devereaux wrote: post #72
swasheck wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (and with IT salaries!). The point of the article was that salary is no longer an indicator of healthcare availability. > Medecine (sic) is a business just like any other. This is the ideology that functions as the crux of the matter. In the US, medicine is a business from which people involved should earn profit. Healthcare (and health, by extension) is not a right. In other places, I suspect it's the opposite. In…

> The point of the article was that salary is no longer an indicator of healthcare availability. And this is why I comment. This is wrong! You should not have to stretch on healthcare if you know how to spend your money. Get treated abroad. It's as simple as that. EDIT: You may lose your job. It's a consequence of life. You will still have saved a bunch of money when taking into count the savings on healthcare and th…

You're describing changing your entire life for getting sick ( living abroad and quitting jobs, so you won't go broke) and act like it's normal.

You seem to describe it as some sort of vacation even.

Again, your narcism for life changing events is astonishing.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#77

Post by devereaux »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #43
devereaux wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the cost of a checkup at the doctor for a foreign tourist? (who I assume will get results also within 24h, and be informed about upfront costs if it's the law) What's the medican income in Belgium? In the US? I just don't understand how people in HN of all place complain about the costs of healthcare. I believe America has a better system, especially if you are in the hacker mindset (and with IT salaries!). Ju…

Read the article, family situation and not profession related. The amount of narcism you seem to have is astonishing. I'm not sure if you are very young or just don't know many people outside IT. I'm happy that my non IT-friends are also able to afford healthcare when it goes wrong. Not everyone does IT and only cares about their own situation. You mention that the wages are a lot more, but here we don't need a schol…

> You need to be a Belgian to get the government to repay you

I don't expect to pay the same price as you. I will pay more. If it is still less than the US price, so I will buy from your country.

And yes, there are private for-profit insurance in some countries aimed at non nationals.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#78

Post by NicoJuicy »

devereaux wrote: post #65
olyjohn wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe because we care about people who aren't making IT wages and can't afford to fly around and take weeks off at the drop of a hat.

Sorry, I care too. I just don't understand. Because if you are not earning a whole lot and risk getting hit with a $100k hospital bill, it just make no sense whatsoever to just take the week off (or even quit!) and get treated abroad using your credit card.

So quitting a job to get proper healthcare is normal for you?

Serious, go troll somewhere else.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#79

Post by nopriorarrests »

tshaddox wrote: post #38
maxxxxx wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In this particular case, the notion that Medicare works at all (let alone well) is a point that about half the country will not concede because it’s one of many a shibboleth that keeps the “sides” at each other’s throats. " One half will throw a fit no matter what gets done. It would be interesting if Trump suddenly announced support for single payer Medicare for all. Republicans would think it's the best thing ever…

> It would be interesting if Trump suddenly announced support for single payer Medicare for all. Republicans would think it's the best thing ever and Democrats would suddenly be against it... I think you’ve got this wrong. I think that in most cases partisanship and hero worship is a lot stronger than support for specific policies. I think you’d find that people wouldn’t change their stated views on single-payer, the…

Well, if you are a gun nut, your only options are to support Trump or support his opponents who want to restrict guns in a very serious way. Naturally, you still support Trump even after bump stock ban. This is perfectly rational. Nothing partisanship about it, IMO.

Re: What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance

#80

Post by NicoJuicy »

devereaux wrote: post #71
henrikschroder wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're basically saying "fuck you, I got mine". Yes, medicine is a business, an industry, and obeys the same rules as other businesses. But the goods it produces, "healthcare", are not like other goods. Demand is infinite, supply is scarce, and on a national level it makes sense to make sure it is distributed on a needs basis instead of a can-afford basis, because that leads to a healthier and more productive populat…

> it makes sense to make sure it is distributed on a needs basis "to everyone according to their needs" - that reminds me of some political movement! Joke aside, I just disagree. It is not the "FYGM" you said. It is reasoning about the problem. Some countries have higher costs. Some have lower cost. Specialization of labor is wonderful - everyone gets richer, even if a country has a net advantage in productivity in a…

Yeah, because if something happens you can spend a year in court abroad as if it's normal.

Your logic is flawed on every post. You should visit a doctor tomorrow, don't forget to fly abroad for a simple visit...

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