China Cracks Down on Churches • Hacker News Board

Re: China Cracks Down on Churches

#171

Post by throwaway2048 » Tue, Dec 25, 2018, 6:37 PM UTC

phreeza wrote: post #51

n-gate wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except china has a population of 1.3B and economic progress is the only thing keeping people subservient.

10 years ago or so the story was the opposite: economic progress will lead to a rising middle class, which will lead to more political freedoms.

Not sure why this is being downvoted, It was absolutely the case being made for why we should be economically involved in China, however it turned out to be dead wrong.

https://www.economist.com/free-exchange/2007/08/31/capitalis...

Re: China Cracks Down on Churches

#172

Post by throwaway2048 » Tue, Dec 25, 2018, 6:39 PM UTC

dgzl wrote: post #108

lgleason wrote: post #4

This is why we need to sever economic ties with China. The more we support this the worse this type of thing will intensify, including beyond China's borders....and it won't stop at just Christianity, they have targeted Islam and, Buddhists etc. as well.

I used to listen to people like Ron Paul, and he would say something like... The stronger our economic ties and dependencies, the less likely we are to commit aggression against each other. I believe he supports the non-intervention policy. [0] [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_non-interventi...

That was also the argument for why WW1 could never happen, yet it did.

Re: China Cracks Down on Churches

#173

Post by weberc2 » Tue, Dec 25, 2018, 6:56 PM UTC

coliveira wrote: post #120

dahidahi1 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if I get your drift, someday you'll support the "freedom of expression" of terrorists? The church is known to indulge in borderline terrorism, just fyi. This is at least in the case of India. We suffer it every single day.

The Christian church has traditionally supported all kinds of regime upheavals that support their theocratic views. Especially the ones backed by the US and allies. Then in the same breath they claim to be unjustly persecuted when they are not allowed to freely spouse these views in another country.

This is not a tradition. It’s only supportable by cherry picking examples.

Re: China Cracks Down on Churches

#174

Post by intralizeee » Tue, Dec 25, 2018, 7:05 PM UTC

“Writing from the perspective of a person who literally had a life ruined by religious ideology impairing the mental judgement of parental figures. This is literally one of the best things I've read in my life. Going to be unpopular opinion because of people indoctrinated into freedom of expression but why not. Religious ideology has done more damage than terrorism to LGBT people. The result has lead to suicides and the law has done nothing to remedy the people abused. The people running the "faith" systems are nothing more than celebs to people who desire their fix and when it develops into a mental illness of pushing upon others.. people look the other way. Since "who has all the money" gets to keep the show running. No compassion exists in this world. Just agenda pushing by who has all the finances.” Shouldn’t be flagged

Re: China Cracks Down on Churches

#175

Post by marknadal » Tue, Dec 25, 2018, 7:06 PM UTC

Why was this kicked off #1 of homepage and now can't be found but by direct link?

Re: China Cracks Down on Churches

#176

Post by rohit2412 » Tue, Dec 25, 2018, 7:08 PM UTC

coliveira wrote: post #104

ghobs91 wrote: post #29

This is why it's frustrating when some make it seem that Christians are incapable of facing persecution, based entirely on their experiences in the US. The Christians in China are very brave for standing by their faith, and I wish them luck and peace.

Christians persecute Muslins. Muslins persecute Christians. Buddhists persecute Muslins. Christians persecute Jews. Muslins persecute Hinduism. It is not a Christian thing, it is a religion tradition all over the world to persecute other religions. Christians have done this for millennia and sometimes they are victims themselves. I think the solution is to stop with the craziness altogether.

When Buddhists persecute Muslims in Myanmar, it isn't because Buddha told them to do so.

But when Muslims persecute yazidis, it is because Mohammed did so, and Quran has verses allowing it.

To stop with the craziness, one should look at what motivates and incentivizes the craziness. And it turns out some religions are crazier than the others.

Re: China Cracks Down on Churches

#177

Post by dgzl » Tue, Dec 25, 2018, 7:09 PM UTC

throwaway2048 wrote: post #172

dgzl wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to listen to people like Ron Paul, and he would say something like... The stronger our economic ties and dependencies, the less likely we are to commit aggression against each other. I believe he supports the non-intervention policy. [0] [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_non-interventi...

That was also the argument for why WW1 could never happen, yet it did.

Could you explain this?

Re: China Cracks Down on Churches

#178

Post by rohit2412 » Tue, Dec 25, 2018, 7:13 PM UTC

n-gate wrote: post #42

dgut wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary. I think our leaders should spend more time together. Maybe they should even vacation together. The US severed economic ties with Cuba in the 60s and look what happened (only recently celebrating Christmas became legal, and property that belonged to the church was returned). There are countless examples like that.

Except china has a population of 1.3B and economic progress is the only thing keeping people subservient.

I don't think so. China remained subservient enough during the cultural revolution and the great leap forward.

It's going to be easy now for the party to remain in control.

Re: China Cracks Down on Churches

#179

Post by rohit2412 » Tue, Dec 25, 2018, 7:17 PM UTC

starbeast wrote: post #41

I'm a left wing atheist. While people like Dawkins and Hitchens may declare religion the root of all evil, I try to have some self awareness on the subject. I look at the 20th century and need only pick two names, Stalin and Mao, to find left wing atheism being drenched in blood. Killing for a dogma is the issue. And those who claim that religion is responsible for all misery are precious few philosophical steps away…

I dont think new atheism proponents like Dawkins and hitchens propose religious persecution like communists.

Looking for social change towards atheism, like a third-wave atheism is very different from imposing atheism on people.

Re: China Cracks Down on Churches

#180

Post by rohit2412 » Tue, Dec 25, 2018, 7:19 PM UTC

olcor wrote: post #58

dahidahi1 wrote: post #16

[flagged]

> Islam and Christianity are just two sides of the same coin As an agnostic Indian (Hindu family), I’d prefer if you don’t color entire religions and people with a broad brush. As for Christian missionaries abusing laws and forcibly converting people, please cite sources. Religious and tribal dogma isn’t confined only to certain religions; feel free to believe what you want but try and exercise restraint against uneq…

As an atheist Indian (Hindu family), I think ideologies can be criticized.

If you can paint Nazis and white supremacy beliefs in a broad brush, so can you criticize religions which unequivocally sentence people to hell for leaving the religion.