Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Indian government to intercept, monitor, and decrypt citizens’ computers

venturebeat.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 170 posts

Re: Indian government to intercept, monitor, and decrypt citizens’ computers

#121

Post by Santosh83 »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #120

As far as I know elections work quite well in India and Australia (which is moving in the same direction), so how do things like this happen? Do the people consider government spying on them Ok?

Majority of the people in India are too busy making ends meet to know or care. This may change as the relatively more educated/affluent younger generations replace the older ones, but for now there are other bigger problems on everyone's minds. Of course govts all over the world use precisely this strategy to push through draconian laws... if the people aren't too stressed out/distracted to care, the evergreen excuses of terrorism and national security are trotted out.

We have general elections next year and the main deciding factors will probably be stuff like demonetisation, rising prices/taxes, perceived arrogance/authoritarianism etc. This issue will go almost unnoticed except by the techically aware minority, just as the wholesale decimation of India's environment by the current govt is also going unnoticed except by the small 'green' minority.

Re: Indian government to intercept, monitor, and decrypt citizens’ computers

#122

Post by Dravidian »

techie128 wrote: post #73
_mdlf wrote: post #26

This is much worst than what we saw in Australia, current Indian govt headed by right wing political party with track record of human rights abuses have passed this order without passing through Parliament using a loop hole in the IT ACT. This is likely aimed at upcoming elections for data analyses via ISP & to target journalists critical of the current govt in India. But I feel that the International community isn't…

Spreading FUD about India?

No,stating opinions based on factual information on the present Indian govt.

Re: Indian government to intercept, monitor, and decrypt citizens’ computers

#123

Post by Santosh83 »

shakna wrote: post #117
LinuxBender wrote: post #103

This will be an unpopular opinion, but I personally like highly oppressive and intrusive governments trying to impose their will on the internet and technology. Usually when this happens, it results in substantial innovation around privacy, security and awareness. Such movements will ultimately force many people underground and into various forms of VPN's, non standard operating systems and custom hardware. To be cle…

This is why I don't like laws like these. They're utterly ineffective at their stated goals. The targets are largely unaffected. However, the average person is affected. And can be deeply affected.

Yeah because the real purpose of these laws is to control the citizens, as ever more unrest in future is a given, for just about any country. Nothing except physically shackling every human being is going to stop crazy terrorists from ploughing through a crowd in a vehicle, but mark my words, you'll find western 'democracies' employing technology in literally every sphere of life to ostensibly control these 'terrorists' although the end result will be a dystopia of totally controlled citizenry that will find it impossible to break their chains unless they're prepared to die.

Re: Indian government to intercept, monitor, and decrypt citizens’ computers

#124

Post by Santosh83 »

techie128 wrote: post #68
sunasra wrote: post #59

First, it was Aadhaar and now this. Somehow Indian Govt wants to track every citizen and build their dictatorship.

Under a dictatorship, people don't have the right to choose. People chose a specific party to represent them in 2014 and in 2018 that party lost several state elections. This is far from how a dictatorship works. Your assertion is factually incorrect.

This is groundwork for the future when tech will control the groupthink of people more and more. And it also enables the shutdown of key dissenting voices in the short-term and did you not read about the arrests of certain activists recently? Previously they had to gather meatspace intelligence but now they can monitor anything that flagged people do digitally and that can be used at a convenient time to shut them down. Tomorrow you could easily become that 'flagged' person too.

Re: Indian government to intercept, monitor, and decrypt citizens’ computers

#125

Post by antgly »

_mdlf wrote: post #26

This is much worst than what we saw in Australia, current Indian govt headed by right wing political party with track record of human rights abuses have passed this order without passing through Parliament using a loop hole in the IT ACT. This is likely aimed at upcoming elections for data analyses via ISP & to target journalists critical of the current govt in India. But I feel that the International community isn't…

Not the most useful bot. CTRL/Cmd + F “analys”

Re: Indian government to intercept, monitor, and decrypt citizens’ computers

#126

Post by nonamechicken »

_mdlf wrote: post #26

This is much worst than what we saw in Australia, current Indian govt headed by right wing political party with track record of human rights abuses have passed this order without passing through Parliament using a loop hole in the IT ACT. This is likely aimed at upcoming elections for data analyses via ISP & to target journalists critical of the current govt in India. But I feel that the International community isn't…

According to the below link, this is not a new rule, but something the UPA government passed. This new order just lists out the agencies that can access the data, where as the original rule didn't list anyone specifically. I remember the "provide password or 7 years jail" was a thing for a while.

https://www.firstpost.com/india/mha-says-snooping-order-base...

Re: Indian government to intercept, monitor, and decrypt citizens’ computers

#127

Post by nonamechicken »

_mdlf wrote: post #34
magesh_magi1 wrote: post #9

TL;DR This is a a decade old directive . This was a 2009 directive, if at all anything that has changed now it is instead of open ended notification in 2009 which said any company can access the data, this directive limits the number of companies to specific 10 agencies that can access that too after getting necassary permission. Details in https://www.opindia.com/2018/12/fact-check-congress-lies-mha...

To western readers clicking on the above 'opindia' article, it is a right-wing media outlet like 'Breitbart'. It is well known to propagate fake news in support of the ruling right wing political party.

Is FirstPost rightwing?

>The Ministry of Home Affairs on Friday clarified that its recent order authorising 10 agencies to snoop on any computer in the country in the interest of national security is based on the UPA-era IT Act and the IT Rules 2009 that allow for surveillance by a competent authority and said all cases of surveillance will be placed before a review committee headed by the cabinet secretary.

https://www.firstpost.com/india/mha-says-snooping-order-base...

I know for sure that "give password or spend 7 years in jail" is not a new rule. It was there for at least a while.

>Section 69 of the Information Technology Act, as amended by the Information Technology (Amendment) Act, 2008, empowers the central and state governments to compel assistance from any "subscriber or intermediary or any person in charge of the computer resource" in decrypting information. Failure to comply is punishable by up to seven years imprisonment and/or a fine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_disclosure_law#India

>A major amendment was made in 2008. It introduced the Section 66A which penalized sending of "offensive messages". It also introduced the Section 69, which gave authorities the power of "interception or monitoring or decryption of any information through any computer resource". It also introduced for child porn, cyber terrorism and voyeurism. It was passed on 22 December 2008 without any debate in Lok Sabha. The next day it was passed by the Rajya Sabha. It was signed by the then President (Pratibha Patil) on 5 February 2009.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_Technology_Act,_20...

UPA ruled India in 2008.

Re: Indian government to intercept, monitor, and decrypt citizens’ computers

#128

Post by _ptgt »

dragonwriter wrote: post #94
dgzl wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well are you trying to be surprised, or are you trying to defend your natural born rights? It sounds like you're not interested simply because it's redundant.

> Well are you trying to be surprised, or are you trying to defend your natural born rights? False dichotomy much? I find the idea of natural rights to be of mixed value (beyond perhaps the case of a single natural right to something that might loosely be stated as that degree of liberty which does not intolerably impinge on the liberty of others), and the idea that the particular details of political compromises mad…

>I'm not interested in efforts to treat political compromise as holy writ.

The concept of natural rights started with philosophers, not politicians. You seem like you need to do a little more reading on this subject.

Re: Indian government to intercept, monitor, and decrypt citizens’ computers

#130

Post by dragonwriter »

_ptgt wrote: post #128
dragonwriter wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well are you trying to be surprised, or are you trying to defend your natural born rights? False dichotomy much? I find the idea of natural rights to be of mixed value (beyond perhaps the case of a single natural right to something that might loosely be stated as that degree of liberty which does not intolerably impinge on the liberty of others), and the idea that the particular details of political compromises mad…

>I'm not interested in efforts to treat political compromise as holy writ. The concept of natural rights started with philosophers, not politicians. You seem like you need to do a little more reading on this subject.

> The concept of natural rights started with philosophers, not politicians.

No, it started largely with politicians who were also philosophers (whether you look at the ancient roots with Cicero and Seneca or people like Locke who were instrumental in crafting the modern view of natural rights.) But, in any case, it is irrelevant to the bit you quote and respond to, which is about people citing particular provisions of the US Constitution as definitive expressions of natural rights, not about the mere concept of natural rights.

Post reply on HN