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Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

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Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#151

Post by dragonwriter »

pjc50 wrote: post #42
TomMarius wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would laws be better? I absolutely don't see how any law could be better than something the people did themselves. Comparable - maybe, but a law is usually way more expensive in the long run and not exactly flexible - and if you were from eastern European state you would know how unions work here (they mostly don't).

Generally in order for unions to exist at all they need a certain amount of protection from reprisals; union organising needs to be a protected activity. Surely the big Eastern European union success story was Solidarity? Although I can understand how unions would struggle to operate in the post-communist era.

> Generally in order for unions to exist at all they need a certain amount of protection from reprisals;

This reverses cause and effect: in order for unions to receive any legal protection, they have to exist and fight for it (many members paying very high prices.) The unions precede the legal protection, not the other way around.

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#152

Post by donkeyd »

camjohnson26 wrote: post #93
donkeyd wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're producing 7000 Model 3 a week. That's more than any other electric car currently, as far as I know.

Do You have a source for that number, that sounds way too high.

My bad, they were pushing for it [0]. Actual number according to Bloomberg is 4k [1].

[0] https://electrek.co/2018/11/15/tesla-model-3-production-7000... [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-tesla-tracker/

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#153

Post by cjhopman »

LoSboccacc wrote: post #98
api wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... yet Tesla pushed the entire world to electrify transport. I remember years ago reading article after article and forum post after forum post about how once we finally deplete oil transportation will revert to the 19th century. I don't read that anymore. I have little doubt that without Tesla you wouldn't see a dozen other EVs on the market. You might have one or two crappy "compliance cars," but nobody else would…

> yet Tesla pushed the entire world to electrify transport Oil prices, pollution laws and incentives did, Tesla was the only one in position to profit for it timely Every company has an electric car in their blueprints, Tesla is the right size to benefit for the small demand that the market created on its own They turned a hundred million so profit this year right? That's not even enough to consider ending the market…

> Tesla was the only one in position to profit for it timely

They're currently down about $15 billion dollars (and a couple billion more in incentives).

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#154

Post by cjhopman »

donkeyd wrote: post #81
InitialLastName wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Every car has a chance of having a winning ticket in the glove compartment" The only problem is that then they actually have to manufacture enough cars to drive a competition like that.

They're producing 7000 Model 3 a week. That's more than any other electric car currently, as far as I know.

They aren't even sustainably producing the 5k/week that they said they would be doing a year ago.

In both 2016 and 2017, they said they'd get to a sustainable 5k by the end of 2017. At the end of 2017, they pushed that to Q1/2018. In Q1/2018, they pushed that to Q2. In Q2 they give up on the sustainable part of that and just said they'd do 5k. At the beginning of Q3/2018 they said they'd get to a sustainable 6k/week in Q3. By the end of Q3 they still weren't able to sustain 5k/week. As we approach the end of Q4, everything indicates that they still can't sustain 5k/week.

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#155

Post by nickik »

LaGrange wrote: post #149
nickik wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I were the dictator and could force everybody to do as I say tge world would be so much better. You live in an utter delusional fantasy world if you believe that public transport and trains can replace cars. And you can believe about mars whatever you want. Even if collonisation doesnt happen, getting to mars alone is already a huge achievment. Just the tech the have done so far has been a huge achievment.

> You live in an utter delusional fantasy world if you believe that public transport and trains can replace cars. You live in an utter delusional fantasy world if you believe that's what I wrote, but we both know that you're consciously strawmanning.

There will be millions of cars sold for many, many years to come. Far, far more then we can now produce EV. Large parts of the world are not gone be served by trains.

Cars right now are a huge part of total oil consumption replacing that is hugely important. Trains are established technology and no train company in the world is gone reduce total oil consumption at the rate that Tesla is producing cars now DIRECTLY competing against an oil driven resource that is gone be around for 20+ years.

So tell me what other company right now is doing more to reduce oil consumption in transportation and even more important, is growing at the rate Tesla is growing. And that is even without the impact of Tesla on the vehicle market.

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#156

Post by LaGrange »

nickik wrote: post #155
LaGrange wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You live in an utter delusional fantasy world if you believe that public transport and trains can replace cars. You live in an utter delusional fantasy world if you believe that's what I wrote, but we both know that you're consciously strawmanning.

There will be millions of cars sold for many, many years to come. Far, far more then we can now produce EV. Large parts of the world are not gone be served by trains. Cars right now are a huge part of total oil consumption replacing that is hugely important. Trains are established technology and no train company in the world is gone reduce total oil consumption at the rate that Tesla is producing cars now DIRECTLY co…

> So tell me what other company right now is doing more to reduce oil consumption in transportation and even more important, is growing at the rate Tesla is growing. And that is even without the impact of Tesla on the vehicle market.

Regardless of your non-sequiturs and strawmanning, the Zurich public transport authority http://photo.tramscape.com/trolleybus/2013_mini_trolleybus.j...

Edit: also, a true devotee like you should be aware that Musks main motivation is his hate for traveling with other people, not "reducing the oil consumption."

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#157

Post by rightbyte »

leesec wrote: post #115
skgoa wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm honestly amazed to still see people call him a genius in 2018.

I'm honestly amazed people don't think he's a genius after all he has accomplished.

What's genius about him? He's a great manager, in the sense that he get people to get shit done.

Would you call Wayne Gretzky a genius?

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#158

Post by WaddyJones »

api wrote: post #100
petermcneeley wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have thought about this as well and I think the problem is that this is a tautology. To be a dominant figure requires that you dominate. There could never be such a thing as a Good King because monarchic structure requires oppression. The question that we have for ourselves is Do we need kings?

I really think I'm asking the last question. Historically we do seem to need "kings" of some form or another. This makes the requirement socially tautological. Kings have to be assholes because people need asshole kings. My depressing hypothesis is that because the average human is essentially depressed, un-driven, and anhedonic, we depend on being dominated by hyper-driven assholes to reach our full potential. What'…

I’m loving your comment, and speaking of stimulants, you write like you’re on adderall lol :)

We do need drive and charisma to emotionally mime. But the implication of what you’re writing is that the Kings among us manufacture that drive and charisma ourselves.

I have a different hunch about the best way to produce this charisma than you: we don’t need stimulants. We just need placebos and placebo thoughts.

The solution isn’t in “superior stimulant medications” because it seems like the main value people really stimulants is their value as placebos. The solution, IMO, is either in superior PLACEBO medications, or superior methods for people to simply trick themselves into becoming manic.

Like dude just try it as an experiment. Wake up tomorrow and don’t drink coffee. You really think you’re going to crave a king to mimic? What if — just what if — you turn out to be the king ? And what if the only difference between the two outcomes was your willingness to ingest and embrace a “placebo thought” like “IM THE KING!” (Or Zuck’s “Im CEO, Bitch.”) rather than a “superior stimulant medication”?

You don’t need coffee or adderall or “superior stimulants” bro, all stimulants are mostly placebos. All you need is superior “placebo thoughts” that allow you to go from a state of normality/anhedonia/“slight depression” to mania without chemical assistance, IMO.

My 2¢ btw: maybe coffee actually increased the need for kings , because suddenly everyone’s adrenals were fried in the afternoon and they all craved naps and sedatives more. Equally plausible IMO but I like ur theory too.

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#159

Post by mdekkers »

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #131
baldfat wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> at-will employment laws I just don't get how we just can't over turn them politically state by state in State Elections. How is this not a thing? I live in an At Will State (PA) and it pretty much sucks to have the knowledge I can be fired for any reason and sure I still can sue but I can still lose even though I am 100% in the right.

Well, you can also quit for any reason, at any time. Sure, I know that in most cases the employer has more power than the employee, but what's the reasonable alternative? If I run a business and I can't afford you, then I have to continue employing you to the detriment of the rest of the business? One of the guys who reports to me just turned in his 2 weeks notice completely out of the blue. It puts me in a bind beca…

If I run a business and I can't afford you, then I have to continue employing you to the detriment of the rest of the business?

I frequently hear this being trotted out as the reason why at-will employment is a good thing. This is, however, not the reality. You can fire employees for many reasons: Poor performance, breaking the rules, and - yes - lack of money.

What you cannot do is fire people on the spot for any random reason. You can fire people, but you have to follow a process that is designed to protect both the employer and the employee.

I have had to fire people in my employ a few times, and every time I was annoyed at the length and complication of the process I had to follow. I never once thought that at-will employment was a good alternative. As an employer, I strongly believe that the practice is barbaric and uncivilized.

Well, you can also quit for any reason, at any time

And...? If your business is structured in such a way that this situation would pose an existential threat to your business, you have failed as a business manager. If this situation doesn't pose an existential threat to your business, it is just an annoyance - sucks to be you, I guess. As a reward for the risks and hardships of being a company owner, you get to take home your profits.

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#160

Post by mdekkers »

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #142
m_mueller wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternative is something like 3 months notice guaranteed by law after 3 months of employment. This benefits both parties as it’s very problematic to loose employees on projects without any warning.

Sure, but my point is that as an employee I like knowing I can leave at any time I want. I consider having that freedom a reasonable price to pay for my employer being able to let me go at any time they want.

my point is that as an employee I like knowing I can leave at any time I want

What gives you the idea that you cannot leave anytime you want as an employee?

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