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Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

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Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#91

Post by hopefulengineer »

dkersten wrote: post #5

Yay for at-will employment laws... :-( > Over the previous year, he had been living out of a suitcase, putting in 13-hour days, seven days a week. This story is a good reminder not to do this. The company will usually not return the favour, you rarely get properly rewarded for crazy hours, yet it has a major impact on your health (both mental and physical) in the long run. Not worth it. > It was not a 9 to 5 company.…

Musk is a great marketer and communicator, he convinces people that making luxury cars is saving the world because they are electric. The people buying them also feel like they are heroes saving the world. Humans have a need to feel like they are a part of something bigger than themselves and Musk provides it.

Steve jobs did the same thing, their marketing was all about pushing how apple users think different and are changing the world by being mindless consumers

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#92

Post by Robotbeat »

LaGrange wrote: post #63
ConfusedDog wrote: post #57

Why would anyone work there if this is the case? I agree that Tesla cars are very futuristic, but glory all goes to the company and Elon. Do employee get like a huge bonus or something if they survived long enough? There's got be a reason this article is not mentioning.

The entire Mars, gonna save the world shtick? It's a recruitment ploy. Most of his claims don't hold up to closer scrutiny, but it's aimed at young tech professionals who _really want_ for their job to make sense, so much, that they're willing to overlook both the evidence it might not _and_ the bad quality of a job offer, just to hook themselves to someone who has a "bright vision." Truth is, much of tech nowadays d…

Doesn’t hold up? What other company is there is making a bigger impact pushing us to electrify?

And the “Mars is a conspiracy” is just not true. Musk can be sincere in his motivations while still not being pleasant to work with.

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#93

Post by camjohnson26 »

donkeyd wrote: post #81
InitialLastName wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Every car has a chance of having a winning ticket in the glove compartment" The only problem is that then they actually have to manufacture enough cars to drive a competition like that.

They're producing 7000 Model 3 a week. That's more than any other electric car currently, as far as I know.

Do You have a source for that number, that sounds way too high.

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#94

Post by cmrdporcupine »

pvarangot wrote: post #83
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a luxury car. For wealthy people to show off. Don't get me wrong, I drive an EV. They're great. But let's not exaggerate what Tesla is.

Is Tesla really on the "for flexing it" side of luxury? I'm in Argentina and never met anyone who owns or drives one, let alone get into one save for on a trip and it was in a showroom. I was under the impression it's the kind of luxury were your money is worth because no one else does an EV that's as comfortable, dependable, fast and with good range. I mean it's luxurious as eating wagyu beef is, there's a barrier t…

I work at Google, and there's a lot of them (both S and 3 and a few Xs) in the parking lot here, but that's because of Google salary. They're bloody expensive. The "$35,000" model is nowhere to be seen, and even when it comes, it'll be stupidly expensive still here in Canada.

Working class people buy used cars, below $15k at least.

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#95

Post by petermcneeley »

api wrote: post #80
dkersten wrote: post #5

Yay for at-will employment laws... :-( > Over the previous year, he had been living out of a suitcase, putting in 13-hour days, seven days a week. This story is a good reminder not to do this. The company will usually not return the favour, you rarely get properly rewarded for crazy hours, yet it has a major impact on your health (both mental and physical) in the long run. Not worth it. > It was not a 9 to 5 company.…

... yet Tesla pushed the entire world to electrify transport. I remember years ago reading article after article and forum post after forum post about how once we finally deplete oil transportation will revert to the 19th century. I don't read that anymore. I have little doubt that without Tesla you wouldn't see a dozen other EVs on the market. You might have one or two crappy "compliance cars," but nobody else would…

I have thought about this as well and I think the problem is that this is a tautology. To be a dominant figure requires that you dominate. There could never be such a thing as a Good King because monarchic structure requires oppression. The question that we have for ourselves is Do we need kings?

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#96

Post by TomMarius »

pjc50 wrote: post #42
TomMarius wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would laws be better? I absolutely don't see how any law could be better than something the people did themselves. Comparable - maybe, but a law is usually way more expensive in the long run and not exactly flexible - and if you were from eastern European state you would know how unions work here (they mostly don't).

Generally in order for unions to exist at all they need a certain amount of protection from reprisals; union organising needs to be a protected activity. Surely the big Eastern European union success story was Solidarity? Although I can understand how unions would struggle to operate in the post-communist era.

> Generally in order for unions to exist at all they need a certain amount of protection from reprisals; union organising needs to be a protected activity.

Could you please explain why, in the age of e-mail and Facebook? People in my country have zero problem organising political events on Facebook, attracting several tens of thousands of visitors to their demonstrations.

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#97

Post by pjc50 »

TomMarius wrote: post #96
pjc50 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally in order for unions to exist at all they need a certain amount of protection from reprisals; union organising needs to be a protected activity. Surely the big Eastern European union success story was Solidarity? Although I can understand how unions would struggle to operate in the post-communist era.

> Generally in order for unions to exist at all they need a certain amount of protection from reprisals; union organising needs to be a protected activity. Could you please explain why, in the age of e-mail and Facebook? People in my country have zero problem organising political events on Facebook, attracting several tens of thousands of visitors to their demonstrations.

If you're organising a union on Facebook, and you're under American-style at-will employment, and it wasn't banned under https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_concerted_activity , then the employer would simply immediately fire whichever people were seen to be the ringleaders.

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#98

Post by LoSboccacc »

api wrote: post #80
dkersten wrote: post #5

Yay for at-will employment laws... :-( > Over the previous year, he had been living out of a suitcase, putting in 13-hour days, seven days a week. This story is a good reminder not to do this. The company will usually not return the favour, you rarely get properly rewarded for crazy hours, yet it has a major impact on your health (both mental and physical) in the long run. Not worth it. > It was not a 9 to 5 company.…

... yet Tesla pushed the entire world to electrify transport. I remember years ago reading article after article and forum post after forum post about how once we finally deplete oil transportation will revert to the 19th century. I don't read that anymore. I have little doubt that without Tesla you wouldn't see a dozen other EVs on the market. You might have one or two crappy "compliance cars," but nobody else would…

> yet Tesla pushed the entire world to electrify transport

Oil prices, pollution laws and incentives did, Tesla was the only one in position to profit for it timely

Every company has an electric car in their blueprints, Tesla is the right size to benefit for the small demand that the market created on its own

They turned a hundred million so profit this year right? That's not even enough to consider ending the market for the larger companies. Comparatively they could earn those profit just by tweaking a decimal on their car financing services interest.

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#99

Post by dgut »

gilrain wrote: post #84
dgut wrote: post #66

People like Musk are necessary. You can't create great things without a mind outside of the norm, and a mind outside of the norm is often unstable. Most people wouldn't manage (psychologically) to be in Musk's position, much less get to the point where he is now. It isn't fair (what happened to this engineer), but hardly anything in life is fair. What's important is to realize this and be able to move on. As an engin…

There are several billion people on this planet. If we push out the asshole savants, then there will be room for the respectful savants who have been there all along. There are too many well-educated, compassionate, clever people out there for “nobody else can do it but this specific abusive asshole” to stand up as an argument.

If you push out the asshole "savants", you must also say farewell to all great things our civilization has to offer today: art, architecture, literature, technology and so on. Great achievers have rarely been driven by compassion.

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#100

Post by api »

petermcneeley wrote: post #95
api wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... yet Tesla pushed the entire world to electrify transport. I remember years ago reading article after article and forum post after forum post about how once we finally deplete oil transportation will revert to the 19th century. I don't read that anymore. I have little doubt that without Tesla you wouldn't see a dozen other EVs on the market. You might have one or two crappy "compliance cars," but nobody else would…

I have thought about this as well and I think the problem is that this is a tautology. To be a dominant figure requires that you dominate. There could never be such a thing as a Good King because monarchic structure requires oppression. The question that we have for ourselves is Do we need kings?

I really think I'm asking the last question.

Historically we do seem to need "kings" of some form or another. This makes the requirement socially tautological. Kings have to be assholes because people need asshole kings.

My depressing hypothesis is that because the average human is essentially depressed, un-driven, and anhedonic, we depend on being dominated by hyper-driven assholes to reach our full potential.

What's weird about this is that in a way we are using or even enslaving the king. There's an anthropological hypothesis out there that monarchy evolved in part from the practice of human sacrifice, and when a king's company or country does not perform we still do sacrifice them at least in word if not in deed.

I hypothesize that the conventional model of the "great man" has it wrong. It's not the genius of Steve Jobs or Elon Musk that is driving excellence. It's the drive itself. The actual work at SpaceX or Tesla is being done by the employees, but I question whether the employees could drive themselves to do that work given that we are naturally wired to sit around a campfire, eat, fuck, and occasionally go hunting or berry picking. My hypothesis is that without drive and charisma to emotionally mime, most people don't do much.

I've wondered for a long time if the solution might not be superior stimulant medications. Could we have a king in pill form? Could a simple emotional or even metabolic tweak (again pun intended) eliminate much of the need for inspiring leaders to motivate us?

Now I'm incubating this goofball speculation that the post-enlightenment-era rejection of monarchs was driven in part by importation of coffee reducing the need for kings, which is hilarious and utterly insane. I better get back to work.

Edit:

This whole line of thinking has a big question mark after it. I am speculating and philosophizing, not pronouncing dogma.

I also do not intend anything I wrote as a personal insult against anyone. I've never met Steve Jobs or Elon Musk, and regardless of the circumstances I do think the things they're doing (or did in the former case) are making the world a better place.

I'm just asking if we can find a better way to make the world a better place that is also more compassionate and pleasant at the immediate interpersonal level. You don't solve problems by denying unpleasant realities, so I'm exploring what I see as an unpleasant reality.

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