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Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

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Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#101

Post by api »

LoSboccacc wrote: post #98
api wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... yet Tesla pushed the entire world to electrify transport. I remember years ago reading article after article and forum post after forum post about how once we finally deplete oil transportation will revert to the 19th century. I don't read that anymore. I have little doubt that without Tesla you wouldn't see a dozen other EVs on the market. You might have one or two crappy "compliance cars," but nobody else would…

> yet Tesla pushed the entire world to electrify transport Oil prices, pollution laws and incentives did, Tesla was the only one in position to profit for it timely Every company has an electric car in their blueprints, Tesla is the right size to benefit for the small demand that the market created on its own They turned a hundred million so profit this year right? That's not even enough to consider ending the market…

I'm less optimistic about the conventional auto industry. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that conventional auto companies had to be dragged kicking and screaming into marketing desirable EVs. The conventional auto industry is full of ICE heads and hates EVs, and many of the dealers and unions and auto ecosystem companies also hate EVs because EVs require less maintenance. No oil changes, less moving parts, etc.

Most people will resist change until they are forced into it. Even then some people will literally go down with the ship.

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#102

Post by gilrain »

dgut wrote: post #99
gilrain wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are several billion people on this planet. If we push out the asshole savants, then there will be room for the respectful savants who have been there all along. There are too many well-educated, compassionate, clever people out there for “nobody else can do it but this specific abusive asshole” to stand up as an argument.

If you push out the asshole "savants", you must also say farewell to all great things our civilization has to offer today: art, architecture, literature, technology and so on. Great achievers have rarely been driven by compassion.

I wonder what great historical works we would have today had aggressive assholes not taken the space of more compassionate contemporaries. Or do you truly think nothing of value would have been created by the considerable non-abusive population?

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#103

Post by dgut »

andrew_ wrote: post #73
dgut wrote: post #66

People like Musk are necessary. You can't create great things without a mind outside of the norm, and a mind outside of the norm is often unstable. Most people wouldn't manage (psychologically) to be in Musk's position, much less get to the point where he is now. It isn't fair (what happened to this engineer), but hardly anything in life is fair. What's important is to realize this and be able to move on. As an engin…

I agree. Without somewhat maniacal (of the obsessive enthusiasm variety) personalities grand achievements would be difficult to realize. It takes that kind of person. I tend to dislike hatchet-jobs like this article, as they're flush with stories that appear absolutely bonkers on the surface, and very light on detail of positive interactions of any kind. The man may be a bit bananas, but all great men and women are,…

Definitely. At a meta level, this is quite dangerous. This deep hatred and misunderstanding of the outcasts will have us shrink as a society. A society of wimps will just be overtaken by another in time. We can't be a civilization without Musks.

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#104

Post by xiphias2 »

gilrain wrote: post #84
dgut wrote: post #66

People like Musk are necessary. You can't create great things without a mind outside of the norm, and a mind outside of the norm is often unstable. Most people wouldn't manage (psychologically) to be in Musk's position, much less get to the point where he is now. It isn't fair (what happened to this engineer), but hardly anything in life is fair. What's important is to realize this and be able to move on. As an engin…

There are several billion people on this planet. If we push out the asshole savants, then there will be room for the respectful savants who have been there all along. There are too many well-educated, compassionate, clever people out there for “nobody else can do it but this specific abusive asshole” to stand up as an argument.

The real assholes are the german car company executives who kill people by lying about diesel exhaust of the cara they're manufacturing. I'm sure that they are nice with everybody, but their real toxic impact is so much bigger than Elon's, it's just uncomparable.

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#105

Post by TomMarius »

pjc50 wrote: post #97
TomMarius wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Generally in order for unions to exist at all they need a certain amount of protection from reprisals; union organising needs to be a protected activity. Could you please explain why, in the age of e-mail and Facebook? People in my country have zero problem organising political events on Facebook, attracting several tens of thousands of visitors to their demonstrations.

If you're organising a union on Facebook, and you're under American-style at-will employment, and it wasn't banned under https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_concerted_activity , then the employer would simply immediately fire whichever people were seen to be the ringleaders.

Good point. Thank you!

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#106

Post by grecy »

camjohnson26 wrote: post #93
donkeyd wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're producing 7000 Model 3 a week. That's more than any other electric car currently, as far as I know.

Do You have a source for that number, that sounds way too high.

The quarter is almost over, we'll have hard numbers soon.

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#107

Post by dgut »

gilrain wrote: post #102
dgut wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you push out the asshole "savants", you must also say farewell to all great things our civilization has to offer today: art, architecture, literature, technology and so on. Great achievers have rarely been driven by compassion.

I wonder what great historical works we would have today had aggressive assholes not taken the space of more compassionate contemporaries. Or do you truly think nothing of value would have been created by the considerable non-abusive population?

You can't go through a great lot of pain without the competitive drive, the hunger for greatness. In other primates, it's expressed in form of strength, in humans in the shape of great accomplishments.

If we were all nice people who don't mind being last, we wouldn't be "here" now.

Of course, the "non-abusive population" (you name it) have done great things, they help maniacally driven people like Musk to archive things, but they are the ones who lack the assertiveness and initiative, they're the cogs in the machine.

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#108

Post by LaGrange »

Robotbeat wrote: post #92
LaGrange wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire Mars, gonna save the world shtick? It's a recruitment ploy. Most of his claims don't hold up to closer scrutiny, but it's aimed at young tech professionals who _really want_ for their job to make sense, so much, that they're willing to overlook both the evidence it might not _and_ the bad quality of a job offer, just to hook themselves to someone who has a "bright vision." Truth is, much of tech nowadays d…

Doesn’t hold up? What other company is there is making a bigger impact pushing us to electrify? And the “Mars is a conspiracy” is just not true. Musk can be sincere in his motivations while still not being pleasant to work with.

> Doesn’t hold up? What other company is there is making a bigger impact pushing us to electrify?

Zurich public transport, every single train company. Claiming electric personal cars are a solution to anything is a joke.

> And the “Mars is a conspiracy” is just not true. Musk can be sincere in his motivations while still not being pleasant to work with.

I'm sure he's sincere about colonising Mars. It's just that it's a terrible idea and making it appear as a benefit to society requires some significant mental exercises. But ever since at least Lenin it's pretty much common knowledge that just increases commitment amongst the converted.

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#109

Post by leesec »

mhermher wrote: post #49
purplethinking wrote: post #7

It strikes me that many very successful people are incredibly smart and driven but seem to have the emotional maturity, or personal introspection, of a 10 year old. Maybe it's just a necessary combination for this kind of success, but it's also a bit paradoxical. Case in point: buying 5 mansions in Bel Air when you spend all your time at work, literally sleeping under your desk. Another is insisting on burning the ca…

He doesn't actually spend all his time at the factory. He's mostly in LA. There are people on Twitter who track the flights of his private jet. He's mostly in LA, he'll go to the bay area maybe for a day a week. More rarely to Reno. If he's spending all his time working, it's at SpaceX of anything. But more likely he spends his time at home searching his own name on Twitter. The insane work hours stories are just par…

Lol this is crazy. It's verifiable he was sleeping at the Tesla factory for nights on end.

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#110

Post by krapp »

dgut wrote: post #107
gilrain wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what great historical works we would have today had aggressive assholes not taken the space of more compassionate contemporaries. Or do you truly think nothing of value would have been created by the considerable non-abusive population?

You can't go through a great lot of pain without the competitive drive, the hunger for greatness. In other primates, it's expressed in form of strength, in humans in the shape of great accomplishments. If we were all nice people who don't mind being last, we wouldn't be "here" now. Of course, the "non-abusive population" (you name it) have done great things, they help maniacally driven people like Musk to archive thi…

So what are you then, dgut? You seem to believe society is divided up between great men who do and lesser men who serve. Are you a top or a bottom? Ubermensch or Untermensch?
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