Live data from Hacker News

Windows Server 2019 Includes OpenSSH

blogs.windows.com

161–170 of 296 posts

Re: Windows Server 2019 Includes OpenSSH

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it misleading at all? Hyper-V Manager for example is literally a wrapper for Powershell commands. Virtually all Windows administration can be done entirely in Powershell. And like I said, the literal default installation of Windows does not even include a GUI.

What do you consider the "literal default installation"?

Probably the Nano version.

Re: Windows Server 2019 Includes OpenSSH

#162
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not Mac? Best of both worlds.

I would have said the same thing a year ago. Today not so much because Apple hardware prices have skyrocketed. It used to be that a Mac cost 2x the PC equivalent, but now the cost is reaching 3x. For many, especially considering engineering salaries, that's justified. To me, having the familiar GNU toolchain and Linux configuration available at any moment without having to use a VM or Homebrew is worth the downgrade…

>Today not so much because Apple hardware prices have skyrocketed.

He said

>I, as a consumer, would gladly pay good money to be able to use Outlook and the MS Office suite.

You can do that on a Mac.

Re: Windows Server 2019 Includes OpenSSH

#164
post #150
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if a joke, but I'd absolutely love this. I, as a consumer, would gladly pay good money to be able to use Outlook and the MS Office suite. Regardless of what anyone claims, the linux alternatives are useable but not nearly as good. I used to use Windows with Cygwin, but found I spent way more time doing linux-y things than Windows-y things...so switched away.

Why not Mac? Best of both worlds.

Personal preference. I don't dislike Apple, I just don't like being so tied to hardware. I've got this little custom NUC I do all my dev work on and have come to really enjoy it. Also, I've come to prefer many things about linux, especially its interface(yes, really).

Re: Windows Server 2019 Includes OpenSSH

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft's GUI management tools were really good and generally very discoverable. IMO they were a much better way to manage an OS than cryptically named CLI programs and text files. And most of them worked remotely. And by comparison to modern software they can not even remotely be considered bloated. Every electron application ever made is larger than all of RSAT. Now of course they suck ass because MS has no idea…

It's almost 2019. Are we still fighting over this? OTOH, purely from my experience, MS's tools are good for managing a domain, or some computers. When you start to administer hundreds or thousands of servers, scriptability of CLI tools and pliability of text files trumps all computer automation. xCAT and Salt are two tools (that I use regularly) which are built on these properties and can manage thousands of servers…

On that note, these administration issues are why Walmart & Kroger are on SUSE, much of the IT work you see smaller chains employing people to do has been automated away, or reduced to having any available employee follow a (very simple) guide on how to netboot the machine for re-imaging.

Re: Windows Server 2019 Includes OpenSSH

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont know if that means they didnt understand it. It reads like they were trying to solve the underlying problems with a different approach. SSH is an awesome tool & capability as a relatively high level network channel. The defacto “shell” approach leads to a lot of problems when used as a management device. It encourages adhoc, unstructured, and opaque changes. Managing your hosts via Secure Shell simply leads to…

They already had group policy for structured administration. What Windows was missing specifically was a non-GUI way for that unstructured "get in there and fix the problem" work flow. Structured workflows may well be better for you, but quick and dirty has a lot of appeal. Sometimes you just have to give people the candy they want - even if its not good for them.

Group Policy can't manage Exchange, Active Directory, etc - prior to the introduction of Powershell you were at the mercy of what was provided with the RSAT and RDP for anything else.

Re: Windows Server 2019 Includes OpenSSH

#167
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft has come a really long way recently towards moving to CLI-based management. Starting with Server 2016, the default installation method of Windows Server no longer includes most of the GUI (called the Desktop Experience), leaving you with a command prompt window in the middle of the screen instead. An even thinner version of Windows Server, Nano Server, is also available, and includes even less GUI, being mu…

How does RSAT compare to the new Windows Admin Center?

The Windows Admin Center currently doesn't cover everything that the RSAT does, notable omissions include anything related to Active Directory.

Personally, the Windows Admin Center is a nice-to-have tool for quick tasks by inexperienced or occasional admins - but you really should just learn Powershell.

Re: Windows Server 2019 Includes OpenSSH

#168

I really like the idea, but if you're going to administer production Windows servers, it seems like you may as well learn PowerShell which already has a nice remoting framework.

My understanding is that I'm going to SSH into a Powershell session.

Re: Windows Server 2019 Includes OpenSSH

#169
post #147

This reminds me of that old quotation: "Those who don't understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly."

Well, if you're going to trot out quotes from the 80s (more precisely, 1987, Henry Spencer), you should be aware that Microsoft made and sold one of the first commercial Unixes: Xenix. And they made it in 1980, long before your quote.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenix ->

"In the mid-to-late 1980s, Xenix was the most common Unix variant, measured according to the number of machines on which it was installed.[1][2] Microsoft chairman Bill Gates said in 1996 that for a long time that company had the highest-volume AT&T Unix license"

Microsoft definitely understood Unix and figured out there was no market for it for close to 2 decades.

Re: Windows Server 2019 Includes OpenSSH

#170
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mounting requires other ports to be opened, which no sysadmin will do on the internet. Ssh on the other hand can be started on a non standard port.

IME most Windows servers are not directly exposed to the Internet, instead one would reach them via VPN.

It's a shame you can't use the Common Internet File System over the Internet. ️
Post reply on HN