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Windows Server 2019 Includes OpenSSH

blogs.windows.com

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Re: Windows Server 2019 Includes OpenSSH

#131

Post by qwerty456127 »

mey wrote: post #26
lotyrin wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I understand NT already abstracts Win 32/64 APIs roughly the same way it abstracts the POSIX ones -- if they switched to Linux kernel + an abstraction layer for Win 64 (Official Microsoft Wine, basically) that's one less kernel and one less abstraction to maintain (WSL replaced by the kernel's native interface). I would happily pay for and operate such a product -- especially if I could install such a "Wind…

Primary issue with this would be driver support. Also there is value in the NT kernal itself in my opinion.

> Primary issue with this would be driver support.

Perhaps hardware vendors would just start dedicating more effort to Linux drivers development then. Nevertheless the way drivers work in Windows (separate programs instead of kernel modules) is still better itself.

Re: Windows Server 2019 Includes OpenSSH

#132

Post by TimTheTinker »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #125
TimTheTinker wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's time for MS to develop a new ANSI/VT-compliant, text-oriented shell (to complement PowerShell, which is largely object- and API-oriented). There ought to be a default shell worth using on the other end when you ssh into a Windows server :) cmd.exe and DOS were both text-oriented but extremely buggy and inconsistent. Perhaps MS could just focus on providing a very bash-like language (perhaps even include…

I doubt you'd see Microsoft reinvent the wheel here. They'd more likely work to give WSL more ability to interact with Windows, and then let you just use that shell if you want to.

How likely is it that MS will include and enable WSL by default on Windows Server just to provide a better default shell for terminal and ssh users?

If I were a server admin, I’d probably turn all of that off because it’s more attack surface area. And cripple myself in the process. For that reason alone, I think a new shell is probably more likely to be helpful.

Re: Windows Server 2019 Includes OpenSSH

#134

Post by new12345 »

alkonaut wrote: post #7
mscasts wrote: post #2

That is really something, before as a dev coming from linux when I first was about to login on a Windows Server I didn't understand how to do it since it were no SSH. Administrating the server via a GUI always felt backwards somehow. Why waste CPU cycles on rendering a UI when the CLI is so great (on linux)?

There were multiple ways to get non-GUI shells on remote machines before too. WinRm/WinRs and PowerShell are included out of the box.

Most of these alternatives are not installed on windows server for security/maintenance overhead reasons by IT administrators and developers are forced to live with slow and cumbersome RDP(not to mention zero capability for scripting) for accessing machines.

Now that Microsoft has finally realized the importance of remote shell access for servers and has included it in OS by default, it will become convenient alternative to RDP.

Re: Windows Server 2019 Includes OpenSSH

#135

Post by [deleted] »

alkonaut wrote: post #7
mscasts wrote: post #2

That is really something, before as a dev coming from linux when I first was about to login on a Windows Server I didn't understand how to do it since it were no SSH. Administrating the server via a GUI always felt backwards somehow. Why waste CPU cycles on rendering a UI when the CLI is so great (on linux)?

There were multiple ways to get non-GUI shells on remote machines before too. WinRm/WinRs and PowerShell are included out of the box.

[deleted]

Re: Windows Server 2019 Includes OpenSSH

#136

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

mscasts wrote: post #2

That is really something, before as a dev coming from linux when I first was about to login on a Windows Server I didn't understand how to do it since it were no SSH. Administrating the server via a GUI always felt backwards somehow. Why waste CPU cycles on rendering a UI when the CLI is so great (on linux)?

Microsoft's GUI management tools were really good and generally very discoverable. IMO they were a much better way to manage an OS than cryptically named CLI programs and text files. And most of them worked remotely. And by comparison to modern software they can not even remotely be considered bloated. Every electron application ever made is larger than all of RSAT.

Now of course they suck ass because MS has no idea what it's doing anymore.

Re: Windows Server 2019 Includes OpenSSH

#137

Post by jimmaswell »

mscasts wrote: post #2

That is really something, before as a dev coming from linux when I first was about to login on a Windows Server I didn't understand how to do it since it were no SSH. Administrating the server via a GUI always felt backwards somehow. Why waste CPU cycles on rendering a UI when the CLI is so great (on linux)?

For just one thing, I find it a lot nicer being able to edit config files in Notepad++ or something instead of vim or nano. In my case I mount the remote Linux server as a drive on Windows.

Re: Windows Server 2019 Includes OpenSSH

#138

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

scarface74 wrote: post #59
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft has come a really long way recently towards moving to CLI-based management. Starting with Server 2016, the default installation method of Windows Server no longer includes most of the GUI (called the Desktop Experience), leaving you with a command prompt window in the middle of the screen instead. An even thinner version of Windows Server, Nano Server, is also available, and includes even less GUI, being mu…

I’ve been developing on and for Windows for 20 years and just started doing anything with Linux earlier this year. If you told me I had to do anything advanced with Windows using only a CLI, I wouldn’t know where to start. On the other hand, I could maneuver my way around a bash shell. I haven’t thought about that before now.....

You start with PowerShell and MSDN. Type "Get-" and start guessing at the thing you want to interact with and hit tab to see what's available.

Re: Windows Server 2019 Includes OpenSSH

#139

Post by mycall »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #4
mscasts wrote: post #2

That is really something, before as a dev coming from linux when I first was about to login on a Windows Server I didn't understand how to do it since it were no SSH. Administrating the server via a GUI always felt backwards somehow. Why waste CPU cycles on rendering a UI when the CLI is so great (on linux)?

Microsoft has come a really long way recently towards moving to CLI-based management. Starting with Server 2016, the default installation method of Windows Server no longer includes most of the GUI (called the Desktop Experience), leaving you with a command prompt window in the middle of the screen instead. An even thinner version of Windows Server, Nano Server, is also available, and includes even less GUI, being mu…

How does RSAT compare to the new Windows Admin Center?

Re: Windows Server 2019 Includes OpenSSH

#140

Post by mycall »

slededit wrote: post #126
donavanm wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont know if that means they didnt understand it. It reads like they were trying to solve the underlying problems with a different approach. SSH is an awesome tool & capability as a relatively high level network channel. The defacto “shell” approach leads to a lot of problems when used as a management device. It encourages adhoc, unstructured, and opaque changes. Managing your hosts via Secure Shell simply leads to…

They already had group policy for structured administration. What Windows was missing specifically was a non-GUI way for that unstructured "get in there and fix the problem" work flow. Structured workflows may well be better for you, but quick and dirty has a lot of appeal. Sometimes you just have to give people the candy they want - even if its not good for them.

> "get in there and fix the problem" work flow

Isn't this an anti-pattern considering the cloud tenants of treating machines as cattle not pets?

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