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EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

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Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#71

Post by perl4ever »

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #42
jcranmer wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with GDPR is that the actual scope of it applies to is rather unclear, and the regulatory guidance hasn't been reassuring as to what the actual extent will be in practice. For example, do email addresses on the comments on a blog site fall under that protection? If so, there are some agencies in charge of enforcing GDPR that are violating GDPR on their sites...

> For example, do email addresses on the comments on a blog site fall under that protection? That is not unclear at all. They absolutely do. That doesn't mean you can't have them, but it means you need consent, you need to be clear about how you will use them and you need to let people withdraw consent.

You can't win an argument about whether something is unclear by proving (let alone merely asserting) it is so. This is something a lot of people seem unclear on.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#72

Post by hankhill »

FranzFerdiNaN wrote: post #70
berkmayer wrote: post #28

People underestimate what a big pain in the ass internet has been for the EU bureaucrats in the last 5 years. They can't just remove users freedom in one hit, they need to do it slowly: cookie laws, gdpr, copyright. And of course they always put a little bit of "sense" in every rule. This is a classic tactic that has been used by State organizations for maybe thousands of years. You can find examples in ancient Rome,…

GDPR is a good thing for citizens. But leave it to Americans to proclaim something that is good for people bad because it inconveniences corporations.

when corporations are people and money is speech, humans are merely an inconvenience

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#73

Post by dragonwriter »

beginningguava wrote: post #40
berkmayer wrote: post #28

People underestimate what a big pain in the ass internet has been for the EU bureaucrats in the last 5 years. They can't just remove users freedom in one hit, they need to do it slowly: cookie laws, gdpr, copyright. And of course they always put a little bit of "sense" in every rule. This is a classic tactic that has been used by State organizations for maybe thousands of years. You can find examples in ancient Rome,…

Germany just requested that France give up their UN security council seat so that the EU could have it Remember when the EU was just supposed to be a trade union rather than an organization that can pass laws that effect every person in Europe? https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/11/28/world/germany-u...

> Remember when the EU was just supposed to be a trade union rather than an organization that can pass laws that effect every person in Europe?

The EU was never supposed to be just a trade union, that's a key distinguishing difference between the EU and the EEC. (Though even the EEC was in large part motivated by a long-term vision of a United States of Europe.)

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#74

Post by roblabla »

boznz wrote: post #43
qwerty456127 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is GDPR a problem at all? Is it so hard to avoid personalized tracking of unregistered users, ask users for their consent at sign-up time and implement a button for them to export and delete their data?

The irony is most sites use cookies to click on the "this site uses cookies" and as I block them I get the same message ad-infinitum on every fucking site... and I'm in NZ NOT the EU

How do you propose the website remembers your preference except through the use of a cookie? Cookies are the only way to keep client side state in a cross browser way. Keep in mind, cookies for non tracking purpose are allowed under the cookie law.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#76

Post by sonnyblarney »

alexis_fr wrote: post #68
sonnyblarney wrote: post #36

It would be prudent for Wikipedia at this time to shut down service in the EU, and simply put up a banner indicating that they can't comply with XYZ regulation. Regular folks in all walks of life, and also the bureaucracy would immediately be effected. It would be a 'shock' to Europe and a powerful signal of how vital these resources are, and the real extent they are messing with them. Basically, everyone would becom…

Regular folks would learn to use a proxy, like any good Chinese or Vietnamese citizen. We’ve proven average people can get pretty technical when the interests are aligned (think P2P).

Not quite.

a) 'Regular folk' have never heard of the term 'proxy' and would struggle quite a lot with it. Though I agree, after some time, they'd figure it out.

b) The point is not to 'block Wikipedia' - it's to inform Europeans of the consequences of their legislation. If they even had to think to use a proxy to use a common service, the point would be made.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#77

Post by pgeorgi »

baroffoos wrote: post #15
spaceribs wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Centralization loses. Publicly available content loses. A global community loses. Individuals are too many, faster and more clever than any one company can ever imagine to outmaneuver, it just means our shared internet culture becomes more localized and hidden.

I'm fairly sure this will mean more centralization as youtube will be the only one able to comply with the laws and everyone else will be locked out.

> youtube will be the only one able to comply with the laws

A properly decentralized system can comply with the laws as well: you know what you put up, so there is a filter - it's just in meat space.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#78

Post by czardoz »

fyfy18 wrote: post #53
czardoz wrote: post #41

With the Great Firewall in China and Regressive laws in the EU, the US feels like the only place where users have the freedom to choose what their internet should be. Unfortunately, they have to deal with clicking on cookie notices, GDPR and now this.

By freedom, I assume you are a big supporter of the "Restoring Internet Freedom Order" and can't wait until you can choose to add the YouTube or Netflix packages to your internet connection for $20/mo each.

Absolutely. No one is entitled to free content, what's wrong with paying for Netflix/YouTube?

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#79

Post by a_imho »

roblabla wrote: post #74
boznz wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irony is most sites use cookies to click on the "this site uses cookies" and as I block them I get the same message ad-infinitum on every fucking site... and I'm in NZ NOT the EU

How do you propose the website remembers your preference except through the use of a cookie? Cookies are the only way to keep client side state in a cross browser way. Keep in mind, cookies for non tracking purpose are allowed under the cookie law.

Only remember my preferences when I explicitly ask the site and opt-in to cookies?

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#80

Post by pgeorgi »

ru999gol wrote: post #69
sonnyblarney wrote: post #36

It would be prudent for Wikipedia at this time to shut down service in the EU, and simply put up a banner indicating that they can't comply with XYZ regulation. Regular folks in all walks of life, and also the bureaucracy would immediately be effected. It would be a 'shock' to Europe and a powerful signal of how vital these resources are, and the real extent they are messing with them. Basically, everyone would becom…

I'm kind of surprised there hasn't been action like this done already, now its probably too late anyhow, EU is fucked. SOPA and PIPA had massive protests like that. Maybe Google for example isn't protesting because they know it helps them a lot actually, since they can expect to see no competition from the EU ever again.

https://www.blog.google/around-the-globe/google-europe/propo...
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