Obviously this law and ones like it have no place in a modern, free society, but in regards to the risk with using business apps, it's just the same as before. You can not trust app's from companies incorporated in the five eyes [1]. If you are using a product made in any of the five eyes you are already compromised. By compromised, I mean you can be almost 100% sure that if the owner's of those countries want your data they will get it, and they will get it easily too. They do not need warrants, courts or judges to sign of on anything and haven't done for a long time.
To clarify my position on this. Whether a law like this is actually passed or not, you should assume that every company incorporated in these countries have been forced to place backdoors in their systems. I'm not saying that every company has done this. I'm saying you should assume they have.
Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended
301–310 of 415 posts
Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended
#302Earlier quoted context omitted.
If an Australian developer was served with a Technical Capability Notice to build a backdoor, and then submitted code to be analysed by a third party who found it, the developer would literally be liable to be jailed for 15 years and a $50K fine for individuals or $10 million for companies. The law requires us to deliver exploits secretly and lie to everybody about it.
Maybe set up your release process so that independent code review _can't_ be bypassed? (Review company handles building and signing the application.)
This is what I meant yes, the aussie arm of developers have no build and issue access at all
Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended
#303Some of the comments so far seem to suggest that this bill would require software to include backdoors. However, it looks like [the bill's PDF]( https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/download/legislation/bi... ) includes: > Division 7—Limitations > 317ZG Designated communications provider must not be required to implement or build a systemic weakness or systemic vulnerability etc. > (1) A technical assistance notice o…
The problem is that "systemic weakness" and "systemic vulnerability" are very badly defined. There's no definition of what "render systemic methods of authentication or encryption less effective".
That is by design.
The Australian Government has historically been somewhat arrogant in any area of technology.
Their attitude, in this case and others, is similar to that of management at a company with a poor technology culture. "we're in charge and we're making this law, now you nerds can go sort out the details".
Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended
#304To anyone with a business from anywhere else in the world. Yes please do, publicly and loudly, cease to deal with us (Australia) due to the very real possibility that all of you private and commercially sensitive communications will be monitored and recorded (Also given the five eyes agreement shared with other countries.) Australia already have a history of using their spy services for commercial gain. https://en.m.…
+1 block us. Apple if you are reading this stop selling us iPhones. Australians need to feel the pain of this otherwise nothing will change. 1 billion dollars wiped from Atlassian already. I’m hoping the markets react more and destroy the industry here. Might want to assume that all Australian developers are now potentially compromised.
Ugh, Trello is owned by Atlassian. Will this law mean we should assume Trello is compromised? Trello is based in the US, so I'm not sure how that plays out with the law.
Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended
#305Some of the comments so far seem to suggest that this bill would require software to include backdoors. However, it looks like [the bill's PDF]( https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/download/legislation/bi... ) includes: > Division 7—Limitations > 317ZG Designated communications provider must not be required to implement or build a systemic weakness or systemic vulnerability etc. > (1) A technical assistance notice o…
Wonder how long it'll take for the Aust branches of the US copyright cartel to start demanding access to "pirates" comms through this. From memory, the Aust internet filter was originally introduced using similar excuses. eg stop terrorist recruitment, pedos, etc. The copyright cartel was having "pirate" sites blocked not long after, and has been expanding it's approach since. Seems like a similar play book in action…
That’s the whole point of this legislation, and one of the reasons the legislation specifically supports the death penalty is to allow this legislation to be used by Australia to support the USA, where the death penalty still exists.
Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended
#306Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thank you for this, there is a lot of doomsaying in this thread but this reads to me that it would be possible to refuse requests based on these limitations.
The problem is that you are reading it as though the words mean what a technical person means by "systemic weakness" (such as weakening the crypto in an app in order to target a user). This is not what the words mean (and this entire bill and discussion around it is full of Orwellian doublespeak -- they redefine the word "backdoor" to mean 0-day for instance). The words aren't defined at all in the bill (which should…
Noting that you can’t seek legal advice because you’re not allowed to talk to anyone about the request.
Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended
#307Earlier quoted context omitted.
Bit harsh, compared to America it's still saner day-to-day with healthcare, gun control, and very liveable cities with public transport. And it isn't like other western countries aren't thinking of doing something similar. While this is a bad law, being smug about it is the wrong reaction.
>gun control The Australian government definitely seems like the type of government that can be trusted with a monopoly on violence!
There’s no monopoly on violence. Gun laws are about who can’t have guns, not who can.
Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended
#308As an Australian citizen who has spent many years in the US, I can say that this law is in line with the main ideology of the Australian government: extreme parentalism. You run a red light: fine for $450 in the mail. No court date, no arguments. You exceed the speed limit by 5km/h: $200 fine in the mail. No arguments. It is brutal but it's hard to deny that it works. Australia has some of the lowest per capital road deaths in the OECD. The problem is that the government wants to regulate the internet the say way they regulate road traffic. You can read up all the idiotic attempts here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_Austral... I wonder if this means Australia will have the ability to ban apps like Telegram from the app store?
Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended
#309Earlier quoted context omitted.
+1 block us. Apple if you are reading this stop selling us iPhones. Australians need to feel the pain of this otherwise nothing will change. 1 billion dollars wiped from Atlassian already. I’m hoping the markets react more and destroy the industry here. Might want to assume that all Australian developers are now potentially compromised.
Possible it will go nowhere. How can Apple for example provide a backdoor for imessage which isn't a systemic weakness?
The Government simply defines systemic weakness to be something that doesn’t happen when Apple is coerced to introduce an easily exploitable hole in their security for all products.
I wish I was being facetious.
Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended
#310Earlier quoted context omitted.
The government's primary goal is to protect itself and continue growing like cancer. In many ways the citizens are it's greatest threat because they can vote to cut budget and the power of the political elites. These laws are a way to increase monitoring of citizens so problems can be squashed before they grow too big and threaten the government. Make no mistake, with the rise of ML governments will be able to crush…
That’s a lot of the reason a large part of the US is pro gun. A few hundred people with weapons can cause so much pain they can negotiate with a nation (see the troubles in Ireland, especially near the end). Point is, so long as a populous is armed it can strike fear in the government. Australia doesn’t allow guns in its citizens hands any more. They gave up their rights, now the government can do what it wants witho…
Australians did not give up guns in citizen hands. And per capita, we have more guns than our military.