Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver • Hacker News Board

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#261

Post by _cs2017_ » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 3:49 AM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #128

ptero wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But on general grounds, why a Chinese company should comply with sanctions between US and Iran? And why a fourth country is arresting Chinese citizens violating US rules? I am sure most of us break UAE laws on being with members of opposite gender without a chaperone and even post pictures of class reunions, etc. But I'm not expecting to be arrested for this while visiting, say, Sweden.

> why a Chinese company should comply with sanctions between US and Iran? And why a fourth country is arresting Chinese citizens violating US rules? Huawei stole a Canadian company's technology [1], markets products in America [2], has issued dollar-denominated debt [3] and then went and violated sanctions in dollar-denominated transactions. This is a far cry from extraterritorial enforcement for either the U.S. or C…

[1] is a claim by some guy without any proof. In addition, the guy is clearly interested in selling his security services.

As for [2], [3]: I don't think there's any special law about people who use US dollars being under US jurisdiction.

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#262

Post by taysic » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 3:50 AM UTC

ssnistfajen wrote: post #78

anonymous5133 wrote: post #30

I also wonder what this is going to do to Canada's real estate market considering that Canada has basically been a "safe haven" for Chinese nationals to flock to basically launder their money.

Basically any time someone who has more money than you do purchases something you can't afford, it's automatically assumed that they are laundering their money? It's difficult to take housing issues in Vancouver seriously because paranoia nonsense like "all Chinese are money launderers" just wouldn't stop coming. As soon as a discussion happens, it gets swarmed by (dare I say it) bigots and immediately derailed.

I don't think they were insinuating that all Chinese are money launderers but it is a real issue that has an impact on the real estate market. https://globalnews.ca/news/4149818/vancouver-cautionary-tale...

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#263

Post by torstenvl » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 3:50 AM UTC

DINKDINK wrote: post #137

bilbo0s wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is this, you're always violating some law. Even in the US, there are over 20,000 laws and regulations at the federal level alone. In China, there are even more. Any small foreign operator in China naive enough to assert with 100% confidence that they are not in violation of any of those codes is being dangerously foolish. So here's the thing, I actually agree with you. What China will do, they will do out…

>The problem is this, you're always violating some law. "21 USC §§331, 333, 343 & 21 CFR §133.113(a)(3) make it a federal crime for a cheesemaker to sell cheddar cheese unless the curd was matted into a cohesive mass." https://twitter.com/crimeaday

That's not actually true. The cited regulation permits cheddar cheese produced "by the procedure set forth in paragraph (a)(3) of this section, or by any other procedure which produces a finished cheese having the same physical and chemical properties." 21 C.F.R. § 133.113(a)(1) (emphasis added), available at https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/21/133.113.

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#264

Post by freeone3000 » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 3:51 AM UTC

ineedasername wrote: post #164

Is she herself accused of breaking the Iran sanctions or is it Huawei, and as the CFO she's being held accountable? I can't tell from this article or the one from NYT. And it seems like that would be a big difference, and if it was Huawai then the US should just level sanctions against Huawai rather than arresting its executives on criminal charges.

US can very well do both.

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#265

Post by Benjamin_Dobell » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 3:56 AM UTC

torstenvl wrote: post #259

Benjamin_Dobell wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not, and I never said that it was; quite the opposite actually. I said that it's odd that these things are written in law seems as we already have laws that cover this more broadly. Attempting to maintain in written law explicit definitions of every food that humans can fathom, and how they are presently produced, is clearly untenable.

Seems pretty clearly tenable to me. It is, in fact, being tened. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Really? You're genuinely arguing that every single edible substance and combination thereof ought to be recorded in written law?

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#266

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 3:57 AM UTC

Benjamin_Dobell wrote: post #265

torstenvl wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems pretty clearly tenable to me. It is, in fact, being tened. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Really? You're genuinely arguing that every single edible substance and combination thereof ought to be recorded in written law?

[deleted]

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#267

Post by YZF » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 3:59 AM UTC

hinkley wrote: post #175

ticmasta wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. The US charge is "shipping U.S.-origin products to Iran and other countries in violation of U.S. export and sanctions laws" 2. Canada has similar embargo laws on the books. 3. Canada has a multi-lateral extradition treaty with the US 4. The crime is considered serious with a maximum penalty (in the US) of up to 20 years in prison plus substantial monetary fines. So she's accused of a serious crime in the US that's…

A trade embargo does nothing if any middleman can funnel goods and money across by simply misrepresenting or omitting details about where the goods are going. If I’m wholesaling Cisco routers and they show up in Syria or Iran, and Cisco and I can prove we didn’t know how they got there , that still doesn’t make it okay.

You can still be held responsible. The law requires you to check on who the final customer is and to take some actions on any suspicious transaction. Someone will come knocking on your door and you will need to show documentation to support your assertion that you "couldn't have known". If a product is subject to a trade embargo you can't just "sell it to a middleman" and turn a blind eye.

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#268

Post by wgerard » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 3:59 AM UTC

_cs2017_ wrote: post #261

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why a Chinese company should comply with sanctions between US and Iran? And why a fourth country is arresting Chinese citizens violating US rules? Huawei stole a Canadian company's technology [1], markets products in America [2], has issued dollar-denominated debt [3] and then went and violated sanctions in dollar-denominated transactions. This is a far cry from extraterritorial enforcement for either the U.S. or C…

[1] is a claim by some guy without any proof. In addition, the guy is clearly interested in selling his security services. As for [2], [3]: I don't think there's any special law about people who use US dollars being under US jurisdiction.

Uh I mean, maybe not officially but there's a whole lot of precedent that if you engage in trade using USD that you're under US jurisdiction.

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#269

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 4:00 AM UTC

Benjamin_Dobell wrote: post #265

torstenvl wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems pretty clearly tenable to me. It is, in fact, being tened. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Really? You're genuinely arguing that every single edible substance and combination thereof ought to be recorded in written law?

[deleted]

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#270

Post by Benjamin_Dobell » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 4:02 AM UTC

torstenvl wrote: post #258

Benjamin_Dobell wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just a bit odd that highly specific examples like this make it into written law. A pretty clear example of what happens when you have a Government that can be heavily influenced by corporate lobbying. I don't think your average reasonable person is in opposition to requirements to label food correctly and not mislead consumers. These things are already written in law, in the case of food it's governed by the FDA…

I don't understand your argument. You seem to be opposed to specificity in the written prohibition. So what's the alternative? You'd prefer it if FDA regulations didn't have the force of law? Or would you prefer it if FDA regulations were secret, unwritten, unavailable for cheddar manufacturers and cheddar manufacturer compliance officers to examine? Neither of those seem like good solutions.

It's called industry standards, and it's common practice and already in place in written legislation.

Written laws give Government bodies power to maintain and enforce theses standards, independent of legislation that needs to be passed through long slow processes involving many politicians who have no knowledge of the relevant field.