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Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

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Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#81

Post by bilbo0s »

MetalGuru wrote: post #63
estsauver wrote: post #22

I would not look forward to being an American businessman abroad in China right now. I think we're all used to the fiction that we live in a world that's totally governed by fairness and laws. That's been a pretty useful fiction for a long time, and in (some) of the developed world that's basically been how it's worked. But I really wonder how many shocks this system can take. I would bet money that an important US e…

Seriously. It's this fiction that makes me believe that, despite it's flaws, America (along with other democratic countries) is a beacon compared to the rest of the world. A country locking up a foreigner for breaking their laws is so different than a country locking up said foreigner out of retaliation, which is what I imagine China will end up doing.

The problem is this, you're always violating some law.

Even in the US, there are over 20,000 laws and regulations at the federal level alone. In China, there are even more. Any small foreign operator in China naive enough to assert with 100% confidence that they are not in violation of any of those codes is being dangerously foolish.

So here's the thing, I actually agree with you. What China will do, they will do out of retaliation. However, I can pretty much guarantee that whoever the patsy is, that person will be in violation of some obscure code that no one in their right mind would have been paying attention to. They will definitely be in violation of some law. And they will condemn him/her to whatever ungodly prison camp for however many years.

So China will also be simply arresting someone for violating their laws. That's the issue.

Now my point is that if you are American, and a small operator without the clout to prevent this sort of thing from happening to you, it's best to try to get out in front of the problem. I know that I really don't want to be one of the poor stooges sitting in a Chinese prison for a decade because these people are trying to make tit-for-tat points.

I'm not talking politics or philosophy. I'm just saying that China is not like the US, and I'm advising people to be careful if they are small and plan to operate in what appears to be a dangerous legal environment that will likely be getting more treacherous with time.

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#82

Post by AnimalMuppet »

cedivad wrote: post #77
nimbius wrote: post #71

double standard? I dont recall seeing any of the Bluecoat (Symantec now) CEO's cuffed at the airport when hackers found Bluecoat hardware in Syria... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Coat_Systems It seems like the US Government has a serious axe to grind with Huawei.

And HN plays its part with the downvotes.

I flagged this one as a dup, not for content.

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#83

Post by fastball »

cedivad wrote: post #74
donohoe wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what you mean. They have come up with something - violating sanctions against Iran.

Which to me doesn't sound that different from the above comment talking about Thailand wanting to extradite westerns for offending their king, breaking their law. The something doesn't matter, it's not why she is in trouble.

If you don't want to be fucked by the US don't fuck with US sanctions?

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#85

Post by wonthegame »

ptero wrote: post #64
wybiral wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But yeah, if this is the game that the nations are going to play, then you don't want to be the poor schmuck sitting in a Chinese prison for 10 years just so they can make a point. Facilitating deals with Iran to deliver US products in defiance of US sanctions seems like something the average schmuck hopefully isn't getting mixed up in. It's not quite the same as accidentally violating some random domestic business…

But on general grounds, why a Chinese company should comply with sanctions between US and Iran? And why a fourth country is arresting Chinese citizens violating US rules? I am sure most of us break UAE laws on being with members of opposite gender without a chaperone and even post pictures of class reunions, etc. But I'm not expecting to be arrested for this while visiting, say, Sweden.

Sweden doesn’t view that as a crime so they don’t have any interest in further oppression. Many western countries will arrest foreigners that attempt to use their country as a hiding place. There are extradition agreements that outline this - the long arm of the law.

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#86

Post by fastball »

namirez wrote: post #60
forkLding wrote: post #33

Whats the Iranian perspective? Theres a lot of Americans here, I presume there are Iranians too?

Nothing new here! She appears to have violated the US sanctions. Many people have ended up in prison for lesser offenses, some of whom were not even aware of their crime. The story of John Roth is really informative. He was indicted and jailed simply because of hiring two Iranian and Chinese students. https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/knoxville/press-releases/2...

The fact that it was a USAF drone project which he hired them for seems salient, no?

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#87

Post by bdcravens »

comboy wrote: post #27
chapium wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She allegedly broke US law and was in the territory of a country that shares an extradition treaty with the US.

How sure can I be if my company is not breaking any Chinese laws? Would it by fine if I get arrested for breaking those when I'm on a trip to Asia? I'm not saying that Huawei is innocent, I just agree with the downvoted comment that the situation seems ridiculous.

A core philosophy of law is that ignorance of the law isn't a valid excuse for breaking it.

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#88

Post by crazy_monkey »

MetalGuru wrote: post #63
estsauver wrote: post #22

I would not look forward to being an American businessman abroad in China right now. I think we're all used to the fiction that we live in a world that's totally governed by fairness and laws. That's been a pretty useful fiction for a long time, and in (some) of the developed world that's basically been how it's worked. But I really wonder how many shocks this system can take. I would bet money that an important US e…

Seriously. It's this fiction that makes me believe that, despite it's flaws, America (along with other democratic countries) is a beacon compared to the rest of the world. A country locking up a foreigner for breaking their laws is so different than a country locking up said foreigner out of retaliation, which is what I imagine China will end up doing.

Um, no. Sometimes you have to go tit-for-tat to rein in unreasonable countries who try to apply their laws beyond their reach to things that should be none of their business.

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#89

Post by nimbius »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #82
cedivad wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And HN plays its part with the downvotes.

I flagged this one as a dup, not for content.

sorry about that, I duplicate posted by accident after realizing I hadnt whitelisted hn for cookies when switching back to firefox. dupe deleted.

but seriously, just google ITAR violations and youll find a litany of other american companies that have been made to pay fines for violations and allowed to continue business as normal with no sanctions, no boycotts.

https://spacenews.com/37071us-satellite-component-maker-fine... https://www.strtrade.com/news-publications-ITAR-AECA-violati...

its just Huawei for some reason that sticks in the craw of DC, and has for months now starting with senators insisting they should be boycotted, to a defense procurement boycott that extends to DOD contractors, and eventually the evangelism of a boycott that extends to AT&T and others.

Im genuinely curious what caused it? because the trade violation just seems convenient.

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#90

Post by wonthegame »

fosk wrote: post #3

Can somebody explain to me on what authority the US can request the arrest of a Chinese national on Canadian soil for any action they took while conducting operations of a Chinese organization headquartered in China?

Really? There are extradition agreements between Canada and he US... let’s say you murder someone. You can’t just leave the country and expect the new host to not care!

What she is alleged to have done would be a crime in Canada too so her nationality isn’t relevant.

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