Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver • Hacker News Board

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#201

Post by throw2016 » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 2:08 AM UTC

This is a mockery of globalization, free markets and rule of law. It's sad for those of us who have supported some of these values to see them mocked like this. This is like China or Russia getting Trump's or Bill Gates daughter arrested on some made up charge in a third country. Who will support that?

Unilateral sanctions against Iran or Cuba without the consensus of the UN is questionable in law in the first place. What crimes have Iran or Cuba committed? And yet these sanctions without basis by countries who count Saudi Arabia as their closest ally are allowed to cause suffering to millions of people for decades on end and no one cares. This is the twisted state of our world.

It seems ultimately foolish to believe in ideals when they only apply to a certain group of countries in their benefit, and when not will use propaganda and their collective political and diplomatic power to harass others.

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#202

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 2:13 AM UTC

bilbo0s wrote: post #81

MetalGuru wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously. It's this fiction that makes me believe that, despite it's flaws, America (along with other democratic countries) is a beacon compared to the rest of the world. A country locking up a foreigner for breaking their laws is so different than a country locking up said foreigner out of retaliation, which is what I imagine China will end up doing.

The problem is this, you're always violating some law. Even in the US, there are over 20,000 laws and regulations at the federal level alone. In China, there are even more. Any small foreign operator in China naive enough to assert with 100% confidence that they are not in violation of any of those codes is being dangerously foolish. So here's the thing, I actually agree with you. What China will do, they will do out…

[deleted]

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#203

Post by xapata » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 2:18 AM UTC

TallGuyShort wrote: post #160

dreamcompiler wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article suggests she took US-made products and routed them to Iran through Huawei. That's a US crime, and the US can issue a warrant for her arrest, and if she shows up in a country with extradition to the US, she can get arrested. Which is apparently what happened.

Huh - I always assumed that extradition treaties only applied to people traveling on passports of the relevant country.

Your assumption was incorrect. Were you trying to imply something? If so, I didn't understand the implication.

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#204

Post by ThrustVectoring » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 2:19 AM UTC

mciak wrote: post #11

fosk wrote: post #3

Can somebody explain to me on what authority the US can request the arrest of a Chinese national on Canadian soil for any action they took while conducting operations of a Chinese organization headquartered in China?

Selling US devices (HP computers) in contravention of US sanctions (ITAR, probably) for payment that probably touched US banks

Dollar-denominated transactions are enough, doesn't need to hit an explicitly US bank.

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#205

Post by xapata » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 2:20 AM UTC

ajross wrote: post #153

spenvo wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could that product be Android or does Huawei use a non-Play store version that is exempted?

You could try to make a case about Android, but as you posit an open source internationally available source base would be hard to prosecute. This is surely about hardware.

License is different than copyright or ownership.

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#206

Post by Barrin92 » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 2:21 AM UTC

manfredo wrote: post #197

floatboth wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's kinda scary that the US can do anything about straw purchases. US company sells to HK company, the stuff becomes property of HK company, US should be completely out of the goddamn picture at this point, HK company sells to Iran, done. The US govt must not be able to do anything about the HK company's intention to resell.

This is essentially saying that it should be legal to circumvent embargos. I understand that prohibiting resale can be abused - it's illegal to prohibit resale under many circumstances in the US under antitrust law for example. But that only applies within the US market. The example here is a company deliberately breaching an embargo. If we allowed these sorts of sales then this could prompt the US to take even more…

>This is essentially saying that it should be legal to circumvent embargos.

Yes, that's true. The US embargo policies undermine the prosperity of foreign and predominantly poor nations (including Cuba), the freedom of companies to engage in business with third partners, and the sovereignty of other nations, in this case, Canada.

It is a shame that the US can still bully businesses and countries around like this, and it is an even bigger shame that Canada complies.

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#207

Post by adventured » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 2:21 AM UTC

codedokode wrote: post #179

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why a Chinese company should comply with sanctions between US and Iran? And why a fourth country is arresting Chinese citizens violating US rules? Huawei stole a Canadian company's technology [1], markets products in America [2], has issued dollar-denominated debt [3] and then went and violated sanctions in dollar-denominated transactions. This is a far cry from extraterritorial enforcement for either the U.S. or C…

So if some Western company would trade with Ukraine or Georgia in violation of Russian sanctions, should their representatives be arrested and extradited to Russia? Also, after Russia-Ukraine conflict many Ukranian politicians are under a criminal investigation in Russia (and I guess Russian politicians are investigated in Ukraine). Should they be extradited too?

> So if some Western company would trade with Ukraine or Georgia in violation of Russian sanctions, should their representatives be arrested and extradited to Russia?

The US is still the sole global superpower, it is still (yes, despite Trump) largely charged with maintaining the world order that has existed since WW2. Russia is not a superpower, its reach is regional and it has few allies. You'll see a lot of varied answers in this thread, the only one that matters is this: the US can do things that Iceland (tiny nation) or Russia (large, regional power) cannot because it's far more powerful in most every regard. That's not meant to justify any arbitrary flexing of that power that the US does, it's an explanation for why the US can do it and Russia generally can't in the case of Georgia. It's an imposition of will, backed up by immense diplomatic, financial and military power. Few countries will comply with a Russian request to arrest an American executive, dozens of major countries will at least consider a US request like the one in this case.

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#208

Post by xapata » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 2:24 AM UTC

DenisM wrote: post #199

msie wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sad how this has become a fact because it's insinuated enough times in the press by the same few reporters. First it was Chinese foreigners buying up all the real estate, but that was proven false. Now, it's all these foreigners are laundering their money. Yes, a few (although the RCMP is having trouble with their money laundering case) but not all. The press simplifies and that becomes the reality that everyone…

> First it was Chinese foreigners buying up all the real estate, but that was proven false. How was it proven false?

The market impact appears to be negligible. At least not as large as factor as implied or popularly claimed.

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#209

Post by xapata » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 2:27 AM UTC

Barrin92 wrote: post #206

manfredo wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is essentially saying that it should be legal to circumvent embargos. I understand that prohibiting resale can be abused - it's illegal to prohibit resale under many circumstances in the US under antitrust law for example. But that only applies within the US market. The example here is a company deliberately breaching an embargo. If we allowed these sorts of sales then this could prompt the US to take even more…

>This is essentially saying that it should be legal to circumvent embargos. Yes, that's true. The US embargo policies undermine the prosperity of foreign and predominantly poor nations (including Cuba), the freedom of companies to engage in business with third partners, and the sovereignty of other nations, in this case, Canada. It is a shame that the US can still bully businesses and countries around like this, and…

Would you rather have a ground war in Iran or North Korea? How about Ukraine? That's the alternative to sanctions/embargoes.

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#210

Post by manfredo » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 2:28 AM UTC

Barrin92 wrote: post #206

manfredo wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is essentially saying that it should be legal to circumvent embargos. I understand that prohibiting resale can be abused - it's illegal to prohibit resale under many circumstances in the US under antitrust law for example. But that only applies within the US market. The example here is a company deliberately breaching an embargo. If we allowed these sorts of sales then this could prompt the US to take even more…

>This is essentially saying that it should be legal to circumvent embargos. Yes, that's true. The US embargo policies undermine the prosperity of foreign and predominantly poor nations (including Cuba), the freedom of companies to engage in business with third partners, and the sovereignty of other nations, in this case, Canada. It is a shame that the US can still bully businesses and countries around like this, and…

Yes, it's attacking their prosperity. That's the whole point of embargos: to attack the prosperity of countries that are doing bad things (like developing nuclear weapons). We choose to attack countries prosperity because it's drastically less harmful than attacking them militarily. For that reason it's crucial that those who circumvent embargos are held responsible.

To use an analogy, if the US is a cop the embargos are her taser and military intervention are her handgun. Outside of exigent circumstances she should prefer the former to the latter. While it's worthwhile to criticize unnecessary usages of the former, removing the less lethal option means plenty of bad actors get shot when getting tased would have resolved the threat.