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Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

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Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#141

Post by peteretep »

panarky wrote: post #131
bilbo0s wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is this, you're always violating some law. Even in the US, there are over 20,000 laws and regulations at the federal level alone. In China, there are even more. Any small foreign operator in China naive enough to assert with 100% confidence that they are not in violation of any of those codes is being dangerously foolish. So here's the thing, I actually agree with you. What China will do, they will do out…

> you're always violating some law Exactly. Selective enforcement is indistinguishable from arbitrary arrest.

Which is what makes America, with elected and political DA's, so much less of a beacon compared to normal democratic countries where that would be considered insane.

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#142

Post by TallGuyShort »

ancorevard wrote: post #138
estsauver wrote: post #22

I would not look forward to being an American businessman abroad in China right now. I think we're all used to the fiction that we live in a world that's totally governed by fairness and laws. That's been a pretty useful fiction for a long time, and in (some) of the developed world that's basically been how it's worked. But I really wonder how many shocks this system can take. I would bet money that an important US e…

"I think we're all used to the fiction that we live in a world that's totally governed by fairness and laws." Why are you so sure that this CFO did not break US trade law with regards to Iran? Let's bring it to a trial, that would be the fair thing, and that's what is taking place.

I mostly agree with you, but this isn't exactly a case where the CFO can expect to be tried by a jury of their peers. Enforcing international law (or laws with international scope) in a single country that isn't one's own is a little problematic.

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#143

Post by peteretep »

lustysocietyorg wrote: post #102
MetalGuru wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously. It's this fiction that makes me believe that, despite it's flaws, America (along with other democratic countries) is a beacon compared to the rest of the world. A country locking up a foreigner for breaking their laws is so different than a country locking up said foreigner out of retaliation, which is what I imagine China will end up doing.

> A country locking up a foreigner for breaking their laws It is absolutely crazy to think that US law should apply worldwide. The article does not even mention if Wanzhou Meng is US citizen who broke US law in the US. This case might be retaliation and fear mongering similar to the case of Julian Assange which is pure retaliation and fear mongering.

> It is absolutely crazy to think that US law should apply worldwide.

Sure, but, most crime denominated in dollars goes through New York too. The section called "Stationary bandits" in the following expands this theory a bit:

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-11-27/don-t-...

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#144

Post by spawordss »

estsauver wrote: post #22

I would not look forward to being an American businessman abroad in China right now. I think we're all used to the fiction that we live in a world that's totally governed by fairness and laws. That's been a pretty useful fiction for a long time, and in (some) of the developed world that's basically been how it's worked. But I really wonder how many shocks this system can take. I would bet money that an important US e…

Do you head that sound? That’s the sound of every American CFO packing up and leaving China.

But seriously, China is already preventing foreigners from leaving the country. https://www.afr.com/news/world/asia/china-steps-up-and-widen...

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#145

Post by Kalium »

spenvo wrote: post #132
ticmasta wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. The US charge is "shipping U.S.-origin products to Iran and other countries in violation of U.S. export and sanctions laws" 2. Canada has similar embargo laws on the books. 3. Canada has a multi-lateral extradition treaty with the US 4. The crime is considered serious with a maximum penalty (in the US) of up to 20 years in prison plus substantial monetary fines. So she's accused of a serious crime in the US that's…

Could that product be Android or does Huawei use a non-Play store version that is exempted?

That's a very interesting question!

However, it may not be salient. It's allegedly HP computer equipment - https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-huawei-skycom/exclusive-h...

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#146

Post by wtfstatists »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #128
ptero wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But on general grounds, why a Chinese company should comply with sanctions between US and Iran? And why a fourth country is arresting Chinese citizens violating US rules? I am sure most of us break UAE laws on being with members of opposite gender without a chaperone and even post pictures of class reunions, etc. But I'm not expecting to be arrested for this while visiting, say, Sweden.

> why a Chinese company should comply with sanctions between US and Iran? And why a fourth country is arresting Chinese citizens violating US rules? Huawei stole a Canadian company's technology [1], markets products in America [2], has issued dollar-denominated debt [3] and then went and violated sanctions in dollar-denominated transactions. This is a far cry from extraterritorial enforcement for either the U.S. or C…

> Huawei stole a Canadian company's technology

Then Canada gets to do the arresting and jailing.

Re next 2 points: If you want to justify violance you need stronger triggers. Those 2 just give the US right to ban the Huawei from country or using the USD.

This looks like US doing it because it can. But then US is not facing USSR whose going to die from self-inflicted wounds. China have the most capitalist companies (Apple/etc) defending it.

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#148

Post by zaptheimpaler »

zelon88 wrote: post #135
londons_explore wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law broken was a US law which 'applies worldwide'. The actual supposed crime occurred in a trade between China and Iran. No other country could make a law like that and have any success in enforcing it abroad.

If you're Huawei and you want to continue selling your products in the USA you might want to consider following the law of the USA.

If the US doesn't like the way Huawei does business, they are free to ban them from selling products in their country. Bringing criminal charges is still ridiculous.

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#149

Post by mlazos »

panarky wrote: post #131
bilbo0s wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is this, you're always violating some law. Even in the US, there are over 20,000 laws and regulations at the federal level alone. In China, there are even more. Any small foreign operator in China naive enough to assert with 100% confidence that they are not in violation of any of those codes is being dangerously foolish. So here's the thing, I actually agree with you. What China will do, they will do out…

> you're always violating some law Exactly. Selective enforcement is indistinguishable from arbitrary arrest.

I don’t agree with this, selective enforcement at least has a ceiling of what you can be arrested for. Arbitrary arrest does not have such a ceiling.

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#150

Post by fspeech »

fungi wrote: post #108
wybiral wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somehow they got the US technology in order to sell it to Iran. I'm no legal expert, but there was probably an assumption during that transaction that they wouldn't be selling it to Iran, which they violated. (which is exactly why this is different than them simply doing business with Iran in the first place)

I believe that is what ZTE was pinged for. There were US chips in the equiptment sold to Iran.

No one at ZTE was criminally charged. Though the indictment could be sealed and we may not know until they travel to a country that complies with American arrest request.
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