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Firefox desktop market share now below 9%

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Re: Firefox desktop market share now below 9%

#641

Post by classichasclass »

rangibaby wrote: post #153
Klonoar wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd support it if it felt like a first-class citizen on macOS. It's ironic that everyone decries Electron for not being native, then says you should use Firefox when it violates so much about the platform that it's not even funny. A bug about overflow scrolling (the default bouncing when you scroll over in macOS) has been open for years. It doesn't fit in.

There used to be a proper Mac fork of FF (Camino), maybe it’s time to revive that

The reason was Mozilla killed embedding. Making everything an XULRunner app was supposed to be the future solution, but precluded native apps like Camino and K-Meleon from doing their thing, and while Mozilla had "reasons" I thought and continue to think it was incredibly shortsighted. Look at all the Chromium and WebKit shells. You just can't do that with Gecko on desktop (this may be changing on Android, though).

Re: Firefox desktop market share now below 9%

#642

Post by dijit »

lkbm wrote: post #639
kansi wrote: post #452

Reading this breaks my heart. I have been a Firefox user for almost a decade now and I have good and bad memories with it. Since Quantum release my experience with FF has been nothing but exceptional. On a general day I have around ~15 pinned tabs and more than 50 other tabs open and FF handles it like a breeze. The memory usage is good given the fact that my workload is heavy. On a dual-core machine, I am able to re…

> I have read comments in this thread suggesting that FF's performance is not that snappy but I cannot seem to notice any difference. I use Firefox (Nightly) on a 2015 MBP and I do think it feels less snappy than Chrome. If it didn't have Container tabs, I might switch back to Chrome, despite very much wanting Firefox to succeed. Performance is key.

I get your point but I often wonder if by stuffing everything through a networked document renderer hasn't caused a lot of those performance issues.

Rendering a page is expensive enough, but you have a generation of programmers who only know javascript (and for good reason, the web is an incredible software deployment system). But when everything is a web-app, then the renderer that does the parsing and execution needs to be optimised so hard that the code might as well be proprietary.

That's how I feel about chrome. Parsing and rendering websites today is /hard/ and we're not helping things by pushing more and more and more into our browsers. Of course it will become a monopoly.

Re: Firefox desktop market share now below 9%

#643

Post by SilasX »

feanaro wrote: post #467
Silhouette wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This gets said often, but I've been using Firefox continually since 2003 and I've never noticed it sucking. To this day, my browsing experience is still worse with Firefox than it was before 57, because so many useful little add-ons have never been replaced or have been replaced only with inferior versions. In some of those cases, that useful functionality can't be provided in the new environment, because the APIs to…

This I can relate with, but I would like to note that Firefox seems to be continually expanding its APIs and regaining functionality that was lost. In particular, [Tridactyl]( https://github.com/tridactyl/tridactyl ) (which tries to reimplement Pentadactyl, a kitchen-sink extension API consumer) works rather well. There are still some pain points, like the keyboard shortcut API which still hasn't been merged, but I a…

Thanks for the heads-up! I locally maintained Pentadactyl for my own browser until Mozilla banned unsigned addons (which ticked me off enough to write a Hiter parody[1]). That extension was also what got me into vim.

I'm still upset that they broke custom keyboard shortcuts for ... two years now? All the replacements will only remap keys after a tab's JS has loaded. I used to be able to just zoom through the tabs with shift-j and shift-k, but now it will randomly stop on pages that need to reload, which breaks the whole experience.

I've had Super NES games that offered key customizations, and had much less memory and money to work with. That's really disappointing.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taGARf8K5J8

Re: Firefox desktop market share now below 9%

#644

Post by dubya »

cascom wrote: post #604
bad_user wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

G Suite from Google is still Gmail, but with a better terms of use and usage of your own domain and thus no lock-in. For people that like Gmail it’s a much better alternative. My point was that people aren’t willing to vote with their wallet, but being a loud mouth doesn’t cost anything. And that’s how we end up with monopolies. On the topic at hand I still remember the people crying against Firefox’s Pocket integrat…

I’ve been planning on ditching gmail for a while, but I can’t find a domain name for my perineal email (either taken or don’t love) that I want to use for the next 10+ years!!!

> my perineal email

taint.net seems to be for sale.

Re: Firefox desktop market share now below 9%

#645

Post by Cthulhu_ »

internalfx wrote: post #597
bad_user wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “ I am tired of listening to people screaming their lungs out about privacy when their actions don't reflect their opinions. ” Those screaming for privacy, like myself, are in fact a small minority. Also regardless of the topic, double standards are rampant in this community. You’ll often see people screaming against Google but still using @gmail.com because paying for a domain and the price of one coffee per month…

I have run a Zimbra server for several years now, it's a full size enterprise grade email server. I can run it on a $10 droplet from Digital Ocean. $10 is kinda high just for my email, but the bonus is I host _all_ my family's mail. Wife, kids even mom and dad! It's been nice not being concerned about email privacy. Zimbra is a great piece of software. I think more people should look into it.

I don't trust myself enough to run my own mail server; did you set up your own backups? What's the uptime / SLA (not that gmail has any but still)? Do you need to set up and manage security yourself?

Re: Firefox desktop market share now below 9%

#646

Post by Cthulhu_ »

Copernicron wrote: post #636
bayindirh wrote: post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with GMail is, it's too convenient to use, and relatively secure because of 2FA support. Also, people (including me) think that some newsletters, some bills and receipts are not very personal, so people don't care. I have two main addresses, one is from a local provider and my all financial e-mails and other stuff is coming to that e-mail address, however they don't encrypt anything. I also just got a fre…

> Paid e-mail addresses are not meaningless, but they're harder to justify in most people's eyes. It's not just paid email addresses. It's paid anything. My father constantly pesters me to tell him where he can get free movies, music, software and so on. He wanted to know where he could make unlimited online backups for free and I told him that stuff costs money. Somehow people have gotten it in their heads that if i…

The thing is that a lot of things ARE free - or, there is a free option available. Piracy is a great example, because it is (was?) free, convenient, and you have pretty much an unlimited selection. Streaming services like Netflix and digital game delivery like Steam have made it easier and more trustworthy than piracy.

Re: Firefox desktop market share now below 9%

#647

Post by newscracker »

I'll never give up on Firefox (been using it since the Phoenix days). Mozilla has the right intents for its users, and Apple probably comes a distant second if you consider both privacy and the open web. I believe we would all lose if we don't evangelize Firefox and improve its numbers, since its marketing budget may not be as big as the others'. More people need to know that Firefox is good (or good enough).

As others have said, I also find Safari on macOS to be faster, smoother, and consuming lesser power. But it just doesn't have the extensibility of Firefox (the extensions that I depend on regularly), and no Container-like system. The only other browser I use occasionally is Brave, having boycotted Chrome permanently a little while ago (with the user profile/cookie fiasco that the team backed out of later on).

P.S.: Of course this comment was written from Firefox. And donating to Firefox (in addition to regular donations to Thunderbird).

Re: Firefox desktop market share now below 9%

#648

Post by teh_klev »

bad_user wrote: post #501
Rjevski wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't take that much more. Office 365's base plan is something like 35£/year, plus around 10£/year for a domain. They offer IMAP import so migrating from Gmail is seamless.

Without a good importing tool (warning: the GSuite importing tools are shit), I recommend "imapsync": https://github.com/imapsync/imapsync After cloning the repository and installing the listed dependencies (some Perl packages available in your Brew / Ubuntu repository already), you can do: imapsync \ --host1 imap.old.com \ --user1 "old@email.com" \ --password1 xxxxxxxxxxxxx \ --ssl1 \ --host2 imap.new.com \ --user2…

I've used imapsync in the past to migrate thousands of mail accounts from and old decrepit IMAP environment (with some weird edge cases) to a shiny new IMAP based mail platform.

It's a hugely flexible and versatile tool and it's quite zippy as well, can highly recommend.

Re: Firefox desktop market share now below 9%

#649

Post by metalliqaz »

I use both. I mostly use Chrome for Google apps and for video streaming. I use Firefox as my main browser. I've been using Firefox since before it was called Firefox. One thing I've noticed is that Firefox's plugins don't work as well anymore. Lastpass on Chrome just works. Lastpass on Firefox is always fighting with me. Downthemall disappeared. Using UBO breaks sites on Firefox much more often than on Chrome. That makes me sad.

Re: Firefox desktop market share now below 9%

#650

Post by y4mi »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #645
internalfx wrote: post #597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have run a Zimbra server for several years now, it's a full size enterprise grade email server. I can run it on a $10 droplet from Digital Ocean. $10 is kinda high just for my email, but the bonus is I host _all_ my family's mail. Wife, kids even mom and dad! It's been nice not being concerned about email privacy. Zimbra is a great piece of software. I think more people should look into it.

I don't trust myself enough to run my own mail server; did you set up your own backups? What's the uptime / SLA (not that gmail has any but still)? Do you need to set up and manage security yourself?

i'm not the parent poster, but did host my mail own for a while.

99.99+ uptime for mail is generally not as important, as undelivered emails get resend if it wasn't up at the time of delivery.

it might still be a problem, because its technically possible to disable that feature, but its generally done everywhere.

the bigger problem is, iirc, that the biggest mail provider (gmail) pushes unknown mail servers to spam... so you'll probably be forced to use a relay.

thats still not a big problem, because you generally get one from you domain registrar

there are also fully functional mail implementations that you can use right away with minimal configuration such as MailInABox [0]

...still, i've switched to fastmail ~2 yrs ago and won't be going back to self hosted anytime soon, though i do own several servers i could use for that...

[0] https://mailinabox.email/

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