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China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

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Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#271

Post by [deleted] »

InGodsName wrote: post #44
chillacy wrote: post #6

Just came back from Shenzen, seemed like most of the taxis were electric. You can tell because they're blue vs the red gas taxis. Another ingenious thing they do is there's an added fee to ride red taxis, so people avoid them like they're plague-ridden when they have other options. I thought that was a brilliant use of taxing externalities, you let customers decide whether paying the fee is worth it.

It works in china because CCP thinks, "if it's better for business/control/money/people, we'll do it, doesn't matter if some of us loses in this" Basically, if you are in goverment and you've stock holding in Gas cars, and they are lobbying, gas cars stay. But in China, CCP will simply acquire controlling interest in new winning EV firm if it's better from the perspective of power/money/control over an industry, so t…

[deleted]

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#272

Post by Bjorkbat »

So, resident of Albuquerque here. Our city embarked on a plan to modernize our bus system by introducing a bus rapid transit (BRT) system down one of our busiest streets. This plan included ordering 15 buses from Build Your Dreams (BYD), a Chinese electric bus manufacturer.

Very recently, the city sent the buses back and demanded a refund after they failed to meet their advertised miles traveled per charge. They were the only thing keeping the new BRT route from becoming operational. Everything else was in place.

Getting them out of the city was a bit of a challenge. One of the buses broke down shortly after leaving.

China may be the only one in the race, but this experience has convinced me that it could never lead the race.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#273

Post by sangnoir »

rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #126
benj111 wrote: post #71

So its interesting to think what will happen when they turn their gaze outwards. How long will it take Chinese brands to be a force to be reckoned with? Yes they might be sniffed at to start with, but that's only the same as Japanese cars in the 60s, Skoda in the 90s and most recently Kia, but other manufacturers won't be able to get away with calling them cheap tat for long (assuming they aren't). I assume there are…

>We're all looking at Tesla to bring electric cars to the masses. Should we be looking at China instead? Right now, Tesla consumes more than 60% of the word EV batteries and their shares is still increasing. I'm sure most of the world's EVs will be Chinese but the most high-end ones will probably be Teslas (made in Shanghai if need be). One can draw a parallel with the smartphones market :)

A top level commenter mentioned Geely-owned London Taxi Company is building electrified black cabs. Geely also happens to own Volvo: I think an electric Volvo will do very well in the high-end against Tesla.

Also, if China decides it needs extra EV battery capacity, expect the total number to significantly increase, and Tesla's slice will shrink (in relative terms).

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#274

Post by deepVoid »

Bjorkbat wrote: post #272

So, resident of Albuquerque here. Our city embarked on a plan to modernize our bus system by introducing a bus rapid transit (BRT) system down one of our busiest streets. This plan included ordering 15 buses from Build Your Dreams (BYD), a Chinese electric bus manufacturer. Very recently, the city sent the buses back and demanded a refund after they failed to meet their advertised miles traveled per charge. They were…

Just to throw something out there. My city here in Ontario Canada has been running BYD buses for a while. We have been very happy with BYD buses. These buses are clean and don't emit the black smoke. We have had very positive experiences.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#275

Post by cc439 »

beginningguava wrote: post #219
FooHentai wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, in a weird way it's working in a way that aligns to wider, long-term, individual interests. By making the government the controlling monopoly, China ends up with a form of capitalism where externalities apply to other countries rather than surrounding corporations and citizens. That's kinda interesting compared to how most other capitalist nations are handling their shit right now. You can do 'common good' s…

It's called national socialism. Nobody wants to say it but modern China has essentially copied the economic system of Nazi Germany. Capitalism is simply a tool to be used rather than some great ideal of free markets and competition. You can see it by the way they criticize the US for protectionism while actively being the most protectionist country on earth. The way EV's have been forced is similar to how Hitler crea…

That is an apt analogy even if most people aren't going to be able to process and discuss it earnestly. You can extend the analogy even further with China's approach to social engineering, they actively pursue the censorship of content they deem socially harmful (such as pornography) as much as they pursue the censorship of dissident political content.

It's interesting to see an authoritarian government use tools normally associated with poltical oppression to enforce social mores. Whether you believe those social mores are positive or not doesn't really matter to the part I find interesting and that is the questions and moral quandaries posed by the use of such powerful tools to ostensibly change society for the better. That is a subject that has gone completely ignored and undiscussed in the Western world. That's concerning because we're watching a live demo occur in the world's most populous nation but no one is talking about it.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#276

Post by dmix »

gok wrote: post #240
paganel wrote: post #85

Why don't we bring trolleybuses back? They rock! You don't need polluting batteries in order to run them, just some copper to put the wires up, and we've been master of this "technology" for almost a century now. Also, we should extend or re-introduce the tram network.

On-street trolleys are the worst of all worlds. They require the infrastructure construction of a metro system, but can get stuck in traffic and can't be rerouted. Just use buses or build a real train system.

Plus the countless cables criss-crossing every major street intersection like a spider's web are quite ugly: https://www.flickr.com/photos/drum118/26380513184

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#277

Post by flexie »

deepVoid wrote: post #274
Bjorkbat wrote: post #272

So, resident of Albuquerque here. Our city embarked on a plan to modernize our bus system by introducing a bus rapid transit (BRT) system down one of our busiest streets. This plan included ordering 15 buses from Build Your Dreams (BYD), a Chinese electric bus manufacturer. Very recently, the city sent the buses back and demanded a refund after they failed to meet their advertised miles traveled per charge. They were…

Just to throw something out there. My city here in Ontario Canada has been running BYD buses for a while. We have been very happy with BYD buses. These buses are clean and don't emit the black smoke. We have had very positive experiences.

And why would people downvote this comment? Agree or disagree, but downvoting a completely harmless comment like this is just bad for the conversations here.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#278

Post by razorunreal »

moduspol wrote: post #211
MagnumOpus wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if the tax revenues get distributed back as a carbon dividend - then the only people against it are heavy polluters who lose out. (And since emissions are not distributed linearly, the losers from a cost-neutral carbon-tax with per-capita-dividend will always be a minority.)

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but: From what I'm being told, fundamental changes need to occur in our consumption to have a measurable impact on climate change. That won't happen with normal people continuing to consume at the same rates they have. Could a carbon tax be designed such that normal people are effectively reimbursed and heavy emitters pay more? Yes. But you're not going to measurably impact climate change…

Redistributing money from people who use more to people who use less is an incentive to use less. It can be an arbirarily large incentive depending on how much you decide to redistribute. It's not like the money is destroyed or something.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#279

Post by benj111 »

rsynnott wrote: post #257
benj111 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard it. Eg https://www.inverse.com/article/47731-tesla-gigafactory-now-... But yeah I'm not sure whether China doesn't report battery construction, or under reports or what because it sounds suspect to me also.

> It’s official: Tesla Gigafactory is now the largest annual producer of battery power in the automotive world Official according to who? I suspect that, like much of the less critical reporting on Tesla, it's just reprinting a press release. In any case, that doesn't match the headline; it's just claiming it's the single biggest factory. There's no substantiation of the headline at all, and looking at the numbers it…

Well theres a tweet from Tesla which is the original source I guess.

And you may have noticed how the internet gets, when Tesla/Elon says something that isn't true, so I guess theres some basis to it.

The Tesla fanboyism goes both ways, there are many, many people waiting to point out they are wrong.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#280

Post by rasz »

rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #132
starbeast wrote: post #3

Mercedes-Benz are starting to get in on the act with their buses and trucks.

So they're defying the laws of physics, now? /s https://electrek.co/2018/02/21/tesla-semi-defies-laws-physic...

"But for now, the same laws of physics apply in Germany and in California."

He might want to have a talk with VW engineers about that.

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