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China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

wsj.com

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Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#191

Post by isostatic »

Brakenshire wrote: post #72
SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's great to hear, I have to admit it's over a year since I was last in London. That said, the odds of getting run over by a black cab were already quite high so hopefully they're not totally silent. ;)

When I picture a black cab I don’t picture it actually moving, their traditional role is surely to line the streets or sit in traffic with the engine running, decorating the air with particulates.

Also allow wealthy (usually white male) businessmen to beat the traffic by clogging bus lanes.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#192

Post by 794CD01 »

ams6110 wrote: post #150
marvin wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That type of taxation of externalities is really a no-brainer in the West too, but there’s just not democratic majority for implementing it. A tragedy. Tragedy of the commons, really, on a spectacular scale. A general CO2 tax wouldn’t be hard to implement if we were a dictatorship.

Taxes are hard to implement in many countries, including the USA, because people have seen that the tax money is not spent on what proponents say it will be spent on. You'd have a hard time getting a CO2 tax passed because it would just end up going into the general fund and get spent on pet projects, not on anything that really addressed CO2 emissions, or helped with the cost of alternative fuels or vehicles.

Even more good could be done if the money were spent well, but the fact that the tax must be paid at all serves as the incentive that pushes behavior in a more environmentally friendly direction.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#193

Post by dagw »

smarinov wrote: post #182
benj111 wrote: post #71

So its interesting to think what will happen when they turn their gaze outwards. How long will it take Chinese brands to be a force to be reckoned with? Yes they might be sniffed at to start with, but that's only the same as Japanese cars in the 60s, Skoda in the 90s and most recently Kia, but other manufacturers won't be able to get away with calling them cheap tat for long (assuming they aren't). I assume there are…

Side note, but I don't get the part about Škoda. They have been building cars literally since the onset of the 20th century and have been a well established producer for a long time before the 90s. Or was there some kind of consumer boom for Škoda vehicles in the US/Canada/Australia/the UK, or wherever you are from, that I never heard of before?

that I never heard of before?

Outside the eastern block countries, Skoda was the punchline of jokes and generally considered one of the worst cars you could buy up until the mid-late 90's when they became the Volkswagen budget brand. It's really only since the early 2000's that Skoda became a brand people wouldn't be embarrassed on being seen in.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#194

Post by khuey »

adrianN wrote: post #170
agsdfgsd wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are a few overhead wires actually more expensive than the massive batteries electric buses require? They are certainly less damaging to the environment.

It's not the wires that are expensive, is the bureaucracy required to do infrastructure work in a busy city.

Also the labor required to string all those wires up.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#195

Post by NeedMoreTea »

smarinov wrote: post #182
benj111 wrote: post #71

So its interesting to think what will happen when they turn their gaze outwards. How long will it take Chinese brands to be a force to be reckoned with? Yes they might be sniffed at to start with, but that's only the same as Japanese cars in the 60s, Skoda in the 90s and most recently Kia, but other manufacturers won't be able to get away with calling them cheap tat for long (assuming they aren't). I assume there are…

Side note, but I don't get the part about Škoda. They have been building cars literally since the onset of the 20th century and have been a well established producer for a long time before the 90s. Or was there some kind of consumer boom for Škoda vehicles in the US/Canada/Australia/the UK, or wherever you are from, that I never heard of before?

Skoda were the subject of many terrible jokes in the 80s and 90s, thanks to poor reputation and reliability of earlier decades. They were so cheap, but far more basic, compared to the better known makes.

They started to get OK reliability in the 80s which meant they started to become popular as value for money motoring. They got pretty common on UK roads. Popular and reliable enough to become a common choice for private hire use. Which as many at the time noted, meant Skoda had the last laugh.

The price advantage faded after the VW takeover, but they remained popular as private hire cars.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#196

Post by Steltek »

JorgeGT wrote: post #184
pferde wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, where the hybrid buses connect to the wires (usually at certain bus stops), the wires have sort of "tentacle catchers" on them, shaped as upside-down Vs. The driver just has to stop on the usual spot, press a button, and while passengers are boarding and exiting, the "tentacles" unfurl, and are guided by these "catchers" towards wires. The driver just watches for a light to go on on his dashboard. It works prett…

Just if anyone is curious, the technical term for the "tentacles" is pantograph . And if anyone is more curious about why it has "graph" in it, it's because the term refers to the old utensil for copying drawings which is similar in terms of aspect and principle.

Pantographs are only the bar mounted on a scissor-like mechanism that you find on light rail. They only allow for one electrical connection so they don't work for trolley buses.

The word I would use here are "trolley poles".

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#197

Post by seanmcdirmid »

SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #51
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beijing’s plate lottery has separate pools for ICE and EV cars, so if you want to get a car quickly in Beijing best to go with an EV. Even though Tesla doesn’t qualify for subsidies in China, they have been very popular as a non crap option for rich Beijingers who would have gotten an Audi instead. I’ve ridden in a BYD electric taxi before and it felt like a normal car. As long as it doesn’t explode, I guess.

There seem to be a lot of Teslas in Hong Kong, too. I wonder if the same reasoning also applies?

HK has its own regulations on car ownership, but they are also very strict/expensive, so I imagine there is some significant relaxation/discount for EVs. Also, HK doesn’t have high car import taxes like mainland China does, so there wouldn’t be as much reason to go BYD anyways.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#198

Post by smarinov »

dagw wrote: post #193
smarinov wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Side note, but I don't get the part about Škoda. They have been building cars literally since the onset of the 20th century and have been a well established producer for a long time before the 90s. Or was there some kind of consumer boom for Škoda vehicles in the US/Canada/Australia/the UK, or wherever you are from, that I never heard of before?

that I never heard of before? Outside the eastern block countries, Skoda was the punchline of jokes and generally considered one of the worst cars you could buy up until the mid-late 90's when they became the Volkswagen budget brand. It's really only since the early 2000's that Skoda became a brand people wouldn't be embarrassed on being seen in.

This explains it. I come from a former Eastern Bloc country and Škoda was well established here well before the former regime overtook power after a short occupation by the Red army. Also, they were definitely not unknown in (parts of) Germany from very early on, although I guess not as prominent as in countries who didn't build their own cars, for obvious reasons.

I never knew that until very recently they had such a bad reputation in other Western countries. Thanks for clearing this up for me!

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#199

Post by rleigh »

benj111 wrote: post #71

So its interesting to think what will happen when they turn their gaze outwards. How long will it take Chinese brands to be a force to be reckoned with? Yes they might be sniffed at to start with, but that's only the same as Japanese cars in the 60s, Skoda in the 90s and most recently Kia, but other manufacturers won't be able to get away with calling them cheap tat for long (assuming they aren't). I assume there are…

Not long at all, I think. The US (and European) car and truck industries have been doing too much navel gazing, and far too little forward thinking and investment. While they have been selling things like gas guzzling light trucks and marketing them as a desirable replacement for regular cars, only made economical by low fuel tax and fracking, the Chinese have heavily invested in the next big thing. While the US companies focused on the short term profit, they are going to lose really heavily when the rest of the global economy has moved over to electric, and they have nothing to offer. Meanwhile, China will have several generations of experience in electric vehicle production of all types by that point.

Maybe not too late, if they pull out all the stops and seriously invest in both production and infrastructure to match, but it will take a lot to beat China at its own game at this point. Needs investment at national scale not only in the US, but the UK and the rest as well.

Regarding Tesla. They have been a pioneer in some respects, but I have doubts that they will be the ones to bring electric to the masses. That will I think be done by the established companies (local and Chinese) after they switch over to mass production. Tesla won't be able to compete on volume or price in my opinion.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#200

Post by castratikron »

elorant wrote: post #87

We have electric buses in Greece since the mid 50s. The key difference with modern era buses is that they don't work with batteries but rely on an infrastructure of aerial power lines to which they connect with two antennas protruding from the top of the vehicle. One thing I remember from whenever I was on board them is how damn slow they move. Occasionally the antennas will disconnect which means the driver will has…

Only place I've seen those in the US is in San Francisco.
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