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China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

wsj.com

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Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#71

Post by benj111 »

So its interesting to think what will happen when they turn their gaze outwards. How long will it take Chinese brands to be a force to be reckoned with?

Yes they might be sniffed at to start with, but that's only the same as Japanese cars in the 60s, Skoda in the 90s and most recently Kia, but other manufacturers won't be able to get away with calling them cheap tat for long (assuming they aren't).

I assume there are more barriers to entry compared to other industries. I know Europe slaps duties on imported cars but Japan worked around that.

We're all looking at Tesla to bring electric cars to the masses. Should we be looking at China instead?

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#72

Post by Brakenshire »

SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #55
Brakenshire wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You see them regularly in London, I’d say 5% of taxis have switched or thereabouts. It only launched in the last year.

That's great to hear, I have to admit it's over a year since I was last in London. That said, the odds of getting run over by a black cab were already quite high so hopefully they're not totally silent. ;)

When I picture a black cab I don’t picture it actually moving, their traditional role is surely to line the streets or sit in traffic with the engine running, decorating the air with particulates.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#73

Post by pjc50 »

Animats wrote: post #8

New Flyer, the US's biggest bus maker, is making battery-electric buses. But sales are low - 40 to Montreal, 10 to Toronto, 35 to Los Angeles. In comparison, Shenzhen recently replaced 16,000 of its buses with electrics, all from BYD. Shenzhen also replaced all of its cabs with electrics.

Edinburgh invested in electric and hybrid buses, but they turned out not to have enough power for some of the steeper routes.

London is planning to have "Europe's largest electric bus fleet" next year .. of 240 buses? https://www.london.gov.uk/press-releases/mayoral/london-to-h...

I'm not sure where Shenzen would manage to run 16,000 buses given that London's TFL only have 8,500. The streets must be absolutely full of them.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#75

Post by pjc50 »

lolive wrote: post #56

Let's consider hydrogen cars are the next big thing. Is it a good move to go massively towards electric cars? Especially regarding batteries that will have to be massively replaced in 2 years?

> Let's consider hydrogen cars are the next big thing.

.. let's not? Where are you getting the hydrogen, and how are you transporting it in the car?

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#76

Post by benj111 »

pjc50 wrote: post #68
Tepix wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet none (?) have a tax on kerosine. Which is arguably worse for the environment for multiple reasons. Airplanes are a lot less efficient than buses, ships or trains. Also airplanes release their exhausts up in the atmosphere which is worse for global warming.

There's a problem in that it's effectively banned by international treaty as part of the ICAO. I believe people are working on changing this but it will be slow going.

The UK has the Air Passenger Duty. Which is kind of similar (you are charged more for flying a farther distance). So there are ways of structuring it legally.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#77

Post by _Microft »

I grant that there's a lack of electric buses and trucks in western countries but how is a taxi different from a normal car? Build electric cars and you can have electric taxis?

There are counter examples though. The Deutsche Post, the german postal service, wanted to electrify their fleet and bought the company StreetScooter GmbH [0] because there were no other eletric vans available to replace their VW Caddys. They scaled up the production to 10000 vans a year in 2017 and a second factory producing another 10000 vans per year should begin operations in 2018. They are pretty common in cities and surrounding areas now but less so in rural areas as they lack the necessary range.

Demand seems to exceed production at the moment, as far as I know they have quite a number of other potential buyers for these cars.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StreetScooter

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#78

Post by ForHackernews »

cauldron wrote: post #21

Western media can't see through the veneer, it's true that China has vast amounts of eletric vehicle, but it's due in part to the tax cut and subsidies offered, the vehicles are generally of low quality and little effort put in, some look like ugly plastic toys, no real technology edge across-the-board. Some cars are just cobbled together to claim subsidies or even defraud the government, since the subsidies are kind…

> the vehicles are generally of low quality and little effort put in, some look like ugly plastic toys, no real technology edge across-the-board.

Who cares, if they're not pumping out CO2?

If the price of avoiding ecological catastrophe is we all have to drive ugly electric cars for 25 years, any sane society should be thrilled with that compromise.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#80

Post by Shivetya »

I am all for electric buses, I have stated many times I think the best route for that would be to Federally mandate replacing all school buses with such. However while mass transit is very heavily subsidized by the Federal Government the same is not true about school bus fleets, that should flip. Fund the school buses and let mass transit pay for itself more. I like EVs in general and think people should make a choice that fits their lifestyle, I own a TM3 myself.

Still I will state that for the most this article overlooks the facts that one of China's big exporters has had heaps of issues with its electric buses. Recently [1] Albuquerque has had to reject their BYD buses because they don't make their range claims and overheat in hot weather. This wasn't the only city to have issues with these buses. so where are the American manufacturers at? Proterra is the only one I have seen mentioned [2] and recently in Forbes their name came up.

[1] https://insideevs.com/albuquerque-reject-and-return-byd-elec...

[2] https://www.forbes.com/sites/energyinnovation/2018/05/21/ele...

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