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U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

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Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#191

Post by jancsika »

MichaelApproved wrote: post #67
beginningguava wrote: post #29

The opioid epidemic is an amazing example of human psychology and the power of a visual. More people die from it every year than Vietnam, yet there's been no large public outcry to resolve the situation because it isn't right in your face like a 9/11 or pearl harbor. Even ignoring the human impact and just going to economics, those lost lives will cost the US billions in lost productivity over time, yet nobody really…

Someone replied to you with an ignorant comment that was deleted. I'm copy/pasting it here anyway because they are spewing common misconceptions that need to be squashed. > The US has 330 million people. Do we really care if a bunch self-select out of the gene pool? While some people do choose to use drugs with their own free will, this epidemic isn't about that. Many people getting addicted have been initially presc…

> It's thanks to these ignorant comments that make them fearful of seeking help with the addiction.

I'm not sure the comments are made out of ignorance as much as desperation.

Imagine an audience member telling a DJ: "Hey, I liked your stuff. But I kept hearing a bunch of pops and clicks in the music. Was there something wrong with your system?"

And the DJ says, "No, my system was just discarding the samples that self-selected to miss realtime deadlines. Good riddance, I say!"

We need a name for this fallacy: perhaps the "Unsampling Fallacy?" That is, morally attacking samples in an attempt to characterize the very system for which you were supposed to analyze those samples to gain insights into it.

It's glaring with the DSP example but insidious when it's humans being sampled.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#192

Post by gizmo385 »

ams6110 wrote: post #151
bluedino wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people are just too stubborn to go to the doctor. And many people go, knowing they can’t pay, because they’ll just never pay the bill and will dodge the bill collectors. Plenty of people receive free healthcare in the USA by virtue of never paying, but getting treated. It’s the middle class who pays their huge bills. Insurance doesn’t cover why these days and deductibles are insanely high. The poor get treated a…

There's another group of people like me. I have a good job, with good health benefits. I haven't been to the doctor for myself in probably a decade. I just don't like doctors.

> I just don't like doctors.

Why? They're there to keep you healthy. Yeah, sure it can be uncomfortable talking to a doctor about personal health issues, but it's better than waiting until it's too late and finding out that "if only you'd come sooner, we could have helped".

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#193

Post by chimeracoder »

MichaelApproved wrote: post #94
verelo wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems their comment is gone too. I’d love to have been given the chance to downvote them. To me this all boils down to what you’re saying, but I’d like to just add mention that i think the bigger disease in the US that enables situations like this is the acceptance of misinformation. As you pointed out, many many many of these cases are started by a medically issued prescription, and it kills multiple times more peop…

> i think the bigger disease in the US that enables situations like this is the acceptance of misinformation. It's amazing how many Americans are actually proud of their ignorance.

> It's amazing how many Americans are actually proud of their ignorance.

It's also amazing how many Europeans think they're somehow different.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#194

Post by AnimalMuppet »

all2 wrote: post #125
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The statistics that claim the US is still largely religious are hallow. People wear labels of their religion as a means to exclude or silently signal 'better-than-you', when the purpose and message of those religions has nothing to do with that. Among people younger than about 60 or so I've noticed the reverse being far more true. People don't broadcast how religious they are. People are much more likely to broadcas…

> I personally don't think religion has a large effect on opioid use or suicide but if it does have one it's a positive one. That was my point. As for insulting people, that isn't my intent. I have only my own observations to go on, and I don't know other people's situations or story, especially religion. My personal experience has been rather shallow. No one asks hard questions, no one talks about God unless they're…

> Part of my (rather sad) interpretation of my experiences is that I have questions that are hard, that no one wants to answer. And I'm not able to ask those questions and get a useful answer.

That's unfortunate. However, there are people who are not at all afraid of the hard questions.

I see from your profile that you're at UW Madison. As it happens, I know such a person there. (He's almost certainly going to become my son in law.) If you want someone to deal seriously with the hard questions, contact me at mikestimpson (at) yahoo (dot) com.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#195

Post by joncrane »

jtuente wrote: post #141
adventured wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest problem in the overdose spike is that fentanyl is killing very large numbers of people that otherwise might not have died of overdoses from heroin a decade or more ago. The US is being blasted from outside by huge quantities of fentanyl, primarily by China. It's bordering on an act of war (Opium War style). The notion that China can't stop the fentanyl pouring out of their country toward the US is ridicul…

I haven't read anything yet on the source of the fentanyl, do you have a worthwhile link?

It's relatively well known that if there's a chemical you want, there are several factories in China that will make it and ship it to you.

Anabolic Steroids are one example, Fentanyl is another, I'm sure there are many more.

For example I wouldn't be surprised if there's a black market for agricultural chemicals that are banned in the US but you can get them from China.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#196

Post by jjoonathan »

briandear wrote: post #163
Latteland wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also because the us healthcare market is for profit and they have managed to blocked market reforms.

Government regulates and manipulates health care to such a degree that its hard to even suggest a free market is anywhere close to what is observed.

So why do the countries with even more heavily regulated "socialist" healthcare (most other developed countries) deliver the same quality at half the price?

To front-run the complaints, "same quality" does depend on specifics. The USA really does lead the world in breast cancer and diabetes treatment. It is in the middle or back of the pack at nearly everything else, though, including cost, which is >double, even for treatments without quality to match. Most people would not pay >double for this if they had a choice.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#198

Post by rjkennedy98 »

nonbel wrote: post #19

I would like to see this correlated to access to "health care", which need not necessarily translate to improved health. From personal experience, I have a strong suspicion that much of this "care" is actually harming people. In particular I am concerned about over-prescription of anti-pain/anxiety/depressant medications and incorrect dietary modifications (eg, to eat a low-fat/salt/cholesterol diet). EDIT: Very roug…

The psychiatrist David Healy wrote an awesome, but poorly titled book called Pharmageddon just on this point. By some estimates up to 500K people a year are killed due to bad interaction with the medical system. Per a Johns Hopkins report they estimate around 180K. Its worth noting this is not just medical errors which are incredibly frequent, but much of it is due to side effects of correctly prescribed drugs.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#199

Post by coding123 »

gizmo385 wrote: post #192
ams6110 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's another group of people like me. I have a good job, with good health benefits. I haven't been to the doctor for myself in probably a decade. I just don't like doctors.

> I just don't like doctors. Why? They're there to keep you healthy. Yeah, sure it can be uncomfortable talking to a doctor about personal health issues, but it's better than waiting until it's too late and finding out that "if only you'd come sooner, we could have helped".

They can do harm too. In my personal experience, they have caused much more harm than good. Not saying that for everyone, but ymmv with doctors.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#200

Post by coding123 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #174
bluedino wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people are just too stubborn to go to the doctor. And many people go, knowing they can’t pay, because they’ll just never pay the bill and will dodge the bill collectors. Plenty of people receive free healthcare in the USA by virtue of never paying, but getting treated. It’s the middle class who pays their huge bills. Insurance doesn’t cover why these days and deductibles are insanely high. The poor get treated a…

> And many people go, knowing they can’t pay, because they’ll just never pay the bill and will dodge the bill collectors. Most providers (outside of ERs and the mandate for emergency stabilization therein, and some free clinics operated as charities) won't provide treatment without proof of insurance and any required co-payment upfront, or, for private pay clients upfront payment or fairly strong proof that payment w…

I think that's what he's saying - they go to the ER.
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