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U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

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Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#151

Post by ams6110 »

bluedino wrote: post #124
josho wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people don't go to a doctor when they should or too late I saw this when travelling in the US for work. (I am Canadian). Striking up conversations in restaurants I met staff that worked while sick because they couldn't afford to take sick days, or worked with chronic conditions because they couldn't afford a visit to a doctor. Even worse are the major chronic diseases from our lifestyle (hypertension, diabetes, etc…

Many people are just too stubborn to go to the doctor. And many people go, knowing they can’t pay, because they’ll just never pay the bill and will dodge the bill collectors. Plenty of people receive free healthcare in the USA by virtue of never paying, but getting treated. It’s the middle class who pays their huge bills. Insurance doesn’t cover why these days and deductibles are insanely high. The poor get treated a…

There's another group of people like me. I have a good job, with good health benefits. I haven't been to the doctor for myself in probably a decade. I just don't like doctors.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#152

Post by rsync »

cpursley wrote: post #145
jillesvangurp wrote: post #81

I can think of a few other causes like sickness being a potentially bankrupting event so people don't go to a doctor when they should or too late. This apparently is a risk, even if you have insurance because you are at the mercy of insurers not tossing you out over such whimsical reasons as pre-existing conditions or other bureaucratic tricks they use to kill their customers rather than getting them cured. There are…

> Then there is the widespread obesity because of corn syrup being a heavily subsidized food ingredient You forgot to mention that the US Gov't also subsides the other side via food stamps, which poor folks use to purchase corn syrup and cheap grain foods, further exasperating the obesity epidemic. It's true insanity.

"... which poor folks use to purchase corn syrup and cheap grain foods ..."

This is true. It is truly insane that public food benefits can be used to buy soft drinks, sugar cereals and candy:

"Soft drinks, candy, cookies, snack crackers, and ice cream are food items and are therefore eligible items"[1]

[1] https://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/eligible-food-items

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#153

Post by selectodude »

refurb wrote: post #133
jobigoud wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most natural disasters ultimately increase GDP and are good for the economy. It's a weird metric.

Disasters increase GDP? How? The money spent rebuilding a country is money not spent on other things.

Insurance pays to rebuild, they’re using money that is not part of GDP and adding it to GDP.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#154

Post by leetcrew »

Alex_Fragd wrote: post #103
mrweasel wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The decline is mostly the product of an increase in drug overdose and suicides The US is pretty much also the only country where suicides are increasing.

I suspect it's because we hate poor people and think any form of welfare is "Russian Communist Socialism" When it comes to spending on social welfare, the U.S. is at the low end of the spectrum relative to Western Europe. For example, only 18.8 percent of the U.S. GDP is spent on social welfare, while most of the OECD nations spend at least 25 percent of their GDP. Our rates of suicide are increasing while their rate…

not sure exactly why you're being downvoted, but you probably should justify why "percent of GDP spent on social welfare" is the relevant comparison here. the US is in the top quartile of OECD countries for GDP per capita, and has over twice the GDP per capita of the lowest quartile countries. if they spent the same percentage of GDP as the other countries, they would be spending vastly more per citizen.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#155

Post by Latteland »

ocschwar wrote: post #148
w1nst0nsm1th wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Belgium here. Do you want understand the cause behind the healthcare faillure in the US ? Just take a look at the chart of the halthcare sector index of US Stock Market. If I remember well, healthcare was once considered as defensive sector in bear market... Now, it beats, by far, even the financial sector in bull market.

Because wealthy aging boomers spend more on speculative anti-aging fads in a bull market.

Also because the us healthcare market is for profit and they have managed to blocked market reforms.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#156

Post by intopieces »

cpursley wrote: post #145
jillesvangurp wrote: post #81

I can think of a few other causes like sickness being a potentially bankrupting event so people don't go to a doctor when they should or too late. This apparently is a risk, even if you have insurance because you are at the mercy of insurers not tossing you out over such whimsical reasons as pre-existing conditions or other bureaucratic tricks they use to kill their customers rather than getting them cured. There are…

> Then there is the widespread obesity because of corn syrup being a heavily subsidized food ingredient You forgot to mention that the US Gov't also subsides the other side via food stamps, which poor folks use to purchase corn syrup and cheap grain foods, further exasperating the obesity epidemic. It's true insanity.

There aren’t many differences between the food purchases of SNAP and non-SNAP households[0]. While Food Stamp recipients are more likely to be obese, there is not a strong correlation between that obesity and the food stamps [1].

[0]https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/01/food-stamps-snap-welfare-... [1]https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/05/the-messy...

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#157

Post by mbroncano »

jeffreyrogers wrote: post #137
mbroncano wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends. Do you attend a high school in America?

Is this a reference to shooting deaths? If so, you should be aware that there are ~100 mass shooting deaths a year despite the sensational coverage they get in the media. America does have many more gun deaths than other countries, but the majority of those deaths are suicides and a majority of the homicides are in high crime areas. This is a problem that we can address, but mass shootings, though tragic and terrifyi…

The intentional murder rate in the US is around an order of magnitude bigger than in most countries in Western Europe, Australia or Canada. If you think that’s not an issue, I guess I must disagree.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#158

Post by swsieber »

all2 wrote: post #125
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The statistics that claim the US is still largely religious are hallow. People wear labels of their religion as a means to exclude or silently signal 'better-than-you', when the purpose and message of those religions has nothing to do with that. Among people younger than about 60 or so I've noticed the reverse being far more true. People don't broadcast how religious they are. People are much more likely to broadcas…

> I personally don't think religion has a large effect on opioid use or suicide but if it does have one it's a positive one. That was my point. As for insulting people, that isn't my intent. I have only my own observations to go on, and I don't know other people's situations or story, especially religion. My personal experience has been rather shallow. No one asks hard questions, no one talks about God unless they're…

What do you mean by hard questions? Does it include things like "what happens after we die?"?

I think those questions are best answered by religion, but religion is being attacked, or at the very least, excluded in most thought-provoking venues.

Take for example the school that reject have Chick-fil-A on campus because of its (Chick-fil-A's) religious leanings[0]. Or the fact discussing religion on this very website is generally frowned upon - though that seems to be a reaction to people's recent animosity towards religion.

[0] https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/school-blocks-chick-fil-...

----

That said, I think religion can have a very real effect on opioid use/suicide, depending on the religion. See for example Utah, where the opiod rates, suicide rates and pornography rates are above average. I think that's a result of a complex interplay of factors. I think the gist of what's going on is that the "mormon" culture has squashed many visible vices - smoking, alcohol consumption and physical infidelity. Combine that with a streak of being judgmental / people trying to fit in (TGF, not in all places), and you get an over expression of harder to see negative effects: pornography consumption (though maybe Utahns just pay more for it... being more honest about it?), opioid use, and depression leading to suicide.

----

With all that said, (disclaimer: I'm a member) I think the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints has plenty of missionaries who love to talk about (and answer) the hard questions (if I'm interpreting your post right). And I'm willing to talk about them too (my username as a gmail account). I'm not sure the answers will be satisfactory to you, but I've found them useful.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#159

Post by PavlovsCat »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #75
stupidbird wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's the same issue as the prison population being so enormous. When someone does crime/drugs the country collectively just thinks that these people did it to themselves. I've heard people casually refer to criminals/addicts as animals, it's ridiculous.

Yes that's sad. But consider: what would you call someone who injected strangers with noxious drugs and enjoyed their torment? An animal? Is it so big a leap to think the same, when they're doing it to themselves?

This "I'm not arguing this, but it could be argued" is such a waste of time.

If you say it's "not so big a leap", make the argument? After all it doesn't matter if a leap is big or not, that's always related to the gap it needs to cross. If argument holds and you end up on the other side, it wasn't so big a leap. But it's pointless to talk how a leap is feasible instead of simply making it, leaving that as some sort of exercise for the reader.

I guess it would be actually two arguments, 1.) calling sociopaths animals 2.) the equating of injecting others with something for the purpose of torturing them with injecting oneself with drugs, for the reasons and purposes people actually do that.

Not sure how you would funnel the wide variety of reasons people end up addicted to drugs into something that could be compared with a single situation and motivation like that hypothetical torturer, but then again you haven't made the argument yet, so maybe you know something I overlooked.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#160

Post by intopieces »

rsync wrote: post #152
cpursley wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then there is the widespread obesity because of corn syrup being a heavily subsidized food ingredient You forgot to mention that the US Gov't also subsides the other side via food stamps, which poor folks use to purchase corn syrup and cheap grain foods, further exasperating the obesity epidemic. It's true insanity.

"... which poor folks use to purchase corn syrup and cheap grain foods ..." This is true. It is truly insane that public food benefits can be used to buy soft drinks, sugar cereals and candy: "Soft drinks, candy, cookies, snack crackers, and ice cream are food items and are therefore eligible items"[1] [1] https://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/eligible-food-items

The government ought to be in the business of making sugary drinks and snacks subject to the general market (I.e., through eliminating subsidies for corn and refined sugars) and not trying to become experts in what should and should not be in poor people’s shopping carts. Restrictions like that only lead to people selling their benefits at a loss for cash to get what they want.

Reducing food deserts, increasing healthy food programs for children, and eliminating market distorting subsidies are less paternalistic and more effective.

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