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Ask HN: Why not more hiring of junior devs, then on-the-job-training?

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Re: Ask HN: Why not more hiring of junior devs, then on-the-job-training?

#481

Post by torte »

sudomakeup wrote: post #454
torte wrote: post #9

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I would expect that each newly hired developer (be it junior, mid-level, senior) can and will take time to do train and improve him/herself. I don't mind this being on job time, as long it is not all day. Most times this is even required when doing a task, because no one knows everything, even with X+ years of experience. If this mindset is not there and a newly hired developer…

To me this seems more like "common sense" than an unpopular opinion. As such I hope this isnt an unpopular opinion!

That's why it "might" be :)

I think in the HN community this is probably common sense.

Re: Ask HN: Why not more hiring of junior devs, then on-the-job-training?

#482

Post by torte »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #201
torte wrote: post #9

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I would expect that each newly hired developer (be it junior, mid-level, senior) can and will take time to do train and improve him/herself. I don't mind this being on job time, as long it is not all day. Most times this is even required when doing a task, because no one knows everything, even with X+ years of experience. If this mindset is not there and a newly hired developer…

On th job training doesn’t normally mean in a classroom, but reading docs and asking questions.

Understand, but I think the intensity matters here. If you are mentoring a junior developer and he asks you questions about every little detail (instead of working through some docs and trying things out), then I guess this is not the on-the-job-training you would like to offer.

Re: Ask HN: Why not more hiring of junior devs, then on-the-job-training?

#483

Post by torte »

ng12 wrote: post #85
torte wrote: post #9

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I would expect that each newly hired developer (be it junior, mid-level, senior) can and will take time to do train and improve him/herself. I don't mind this being on job time, as long it is not all day. Most times this is even required when doing a task, because no one knows everything, even with X+ years of experience. If this mindset is not there and a newly hired developer…

Absolutely agreed. What's implicit here is the risk that somebody just won't work out. I once invested a huge amount of effort trying to train a junior dev and after 3 months he still didn't "get it". Not only was he unproductive but I was basically operating at half capacity for those three months. It was a huge exercise in frustration and something I will never attempt again.

I think this is the beauty of this approach as well (vs actively teaching skills). If somebody does not work out, you will know pretty early based on how they approach the learning in the first place.

Re: Ask HN: Why not more hiring of junior devs, then on-the-job-training?

#484

Post by marcus_holmes »

sharemywin wrote: post #480
jbob2000 wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yes, because I definitely openly call people misfit toys, especially when I have just met them and am interviewing them for a professional job. Come on, it’s just a metaphor I use in my head. Have you even seen the movie?

I'm not say you openly call them that. but, you have to be careful about subordinates. A lot of them like to smile and agree then be pissed behind your back.

not only that, but if you call them that in your head, it influences your attitudes subtly.

I spent a couple of years calling subordinates "minions" (before the movies, but remarkably similar mental concept). It took a drunken conversation with a perceptive colleague to change that. It was amazing how much my attitudes to my people changed after I stopped thinking of them as "minions".

Re: Ask HN: Why not more hiring of junior devs, then on-the-job-training?

#487

Post by throwaway3265 »

collyw wrote: post #277
GordonS wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is actually quite a common arrangement at larger companies in the UK. I don't have a problem with it myself - it's simple to understand, and the company is giving you something of high value, and retaining your services for a minimum period in return.

Yes, the only part is that it was mandatory. You should be given the option if there are conditions like that.

Mandatory only to transfer to the new role, not for remaining employed. However, the program this person was in was finishing, so it was either take that or stop working there...

Re: Ask HN: Why not more hiring of junior devs, then on-the-job-training?

#488

Post by distant_hat »

lapnitnelav wrote: post #215
distant_hat wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is common in India too. In fact, companies like TCS, etc are called 'mass recruiters' who recruit in bulk. There are satirical YouTube videos about them hiring by the kilogram. They hire indiscriminately, pay crap, in the the next 6 months people undergo on-the-job training. Some are kicked out, some are moved to better positions and offerings and the rest are contracted out to run-of-the-mill projects. Bac…

So, in which group were you? The ones that left or the one that stayed?

Neither. I am not in software.

Re: Ask HN: Why not more hiring of junior devs, then on-the-job-training?

#489

Post by tmaly »

pydeveloper22 wrote: post #471
tmaly wrote: post #439

I trained a guy that was a analyst and now he is a great dev in my team. I am working on getting another non-programmer to train to learn Python. I find its much easier to get devs this way. You just have to have a self motivated person willing to learn.

Hello tmaly, I'm a non programmer who has been going to self-taught route studying to become a developer in Python. I'm willing to learn and I highly motivated to become a better programmer I could enter the tech/finance industry. It would be great to get any advice insight from you. Not sure if your post was for non-programmers at your company or for outsiders who are willing to learn Python and programming from you…

I just replied to your other thread with information on how to apply.

Best regards,

Ty

Re: Ask HN: Why not more hiring of junior devs, then on-the-job-training?

#490

Post by pydeveloper22 »

tmaly wrote: post #489
pydeveloper22 wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hello tmaly, I'm a non programmer who has been going to self-taught route studying to become a developer in Python. I'm willing to learn and I highly motivated to become a better programmer I could enter the tech/finance industry. It would be great to get any advice insight from you. Not sure if your post was for non-programmers at your company or for outsiders who are willing to learn Python and programming from you…

I just replied to your other thread with information on how to apply. Best regards, Ty

Hello Ty,

Thanks for the prompt reply. I appreciate the help you provided in the posting along with info from the other thread. It has been quite helpful.

Much thanks,

--Kwaz

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