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Ask HN: Why not more hiring of junior devs, then on-the-job-training?

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Re: Ask HN: Why not more hiring of junior devs, then on-the-job-training?

#471

Post by pydeveloper22 »

tmaly wrote: post #439

I trained a guy that was a analyst and now he is a great dev in my team. I am working on getting another non-programmer to train to learn Python. I find its much easier to get devs this way. You just have to have a self motivated person willing to learn.

Hello tmaly,

I'm a non programmer who has been going to self-taught route studying to become a developer in Python. I'm willing to learn and I highly motivated to become a better programmer I could enter the tech/finance industry.

It would be great to get any advice insight from you. Not sure if your post was for non-programmers at your company or for outsiders who are willing to learn Python and programming from you to add more developers to your team? I'm just trying to find a way to break into the field of professional software development that involves the use of Python programming.

Please feel free to contact me at your earliest convenience. If you like, my email is:

pydeveloper22@gmail.com

Thanks.

--K

Re: Ask HN: Why not more hiring of junior devs, then on-the-job-training?

#472

Post by vram22 »

gesman wrote: post #431
tonyarkles wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> new trainees leave when they realize they can get better salaries elsewhere This is one of my biggest gripes about software companies, particularly larger ones. You hire someone fresh out of school and they work for you for 5 years? They damned well need to be paid at that point like someone with 5 years experience, not someone who started at a fresh grad salary with a nominal 3%/year raise. I 100% agree with every…

"The only worse thing to training employees and losing them is not training them and keeping them" -- Zig Ziglar

OH on LinkedIn:

CFO to CEO: What if we train our employees and they leave?

CEO to CFO: What if we don't train them and they stay?

Re: Ask HN: Why not more hiring of junior devs, then on-the-job-training?

#473

Post by jogjayr »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #434
jogjayr wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The second will get hired, but may be a much worse employee. Why would they be worse than the first candidate in this example, if they've actually tried out React and the first has not?

There are many fantastic devs that don’t chase fashion.

Trying out new technologies isn't "chasing fashion". It's an indicator of intellectual curiosity, drive for self-improvement, and openness to new ideas.

Blindly adopting everything new and claiming it's the best thing ever is "chasing fashion".

Re: Ask HN: Why not more hiring of junior devs, then on-the-job-training?

#474

Post by rubicon33 »

city41 wrote: post #78
rubicon33 wrote: post #12

False premise. There is no shortage of devs. That has been a complete fabrication, made up entirely by big tech companies, in a propaganda push to promote more and more people getting into CS. It's entirely so they can pay developers less.

Then why do developers get contacted by recruiters constantly? Every developer I know gets contacted. Yet no non-tech colleagues I know experience anything similar in their industry. I'm not saying I disagree with you, I'm genuinely curious.

As someone else in this thread pointed out - being contacted doesn't mean anything comes from it.

It's EXTREMELY easy for recruiters to spam out messages. Since they're payed based on hires, it's a numbers game for them. Get as many people into the interview as possible.

How many of those interviews actually result in jobs? That's the important question. As this very post shows, there is a clear disconnect: HIRING is much less common than INTERVIEWING.

Re: Ask HN: Why not more hiring of junior devs, then on-the-job-training?

#475

Post by city41 »

rubicon33 wrote: post #474
city41 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why do developers get contacted by recruiters constantly? Every developer I know gets contacted. Yet no non-tech colleagues I know experience anything similar in their industry. I'm not saying I disagree with you, I'm genuinely curious.

As someone else in this thread pointed out - being contacted doesn't mean anything comes from it. It's EXTREMELY easy for recruiters to spam out messages. Since they're payed based on hires, it's a numbers game for them. Get as many people into the interview as possible. How many of those interviews actually result in jobs? That's the important question. As this very post shows, there is a clear disconnect: HIRING is…

Sure, I agree with all of that. But spamming has to have a certain level of return in order to do it. There must be a tangible level of demand out there. Like I said in my first post, when I talk to people in other industries (medical, journalism, electrical engineering, etc), getting spammed by recruiters is utterly unheard of.

I only have anecdotal evidence, but so does every one else in this thread. Personally I have been receiving emails from the same recruiters in some instances for years. I'm not a stand out developer. I also know, again anecdotally, that when we open a developer rec at my current company, it can take a very long time to fill.

My gut says there is a shortage. How much of one is very hard to determine and how artificial the shortage is due to generally poor hiring practices, low salaries, or other factors is also hard to determine. But I find it very hard to swallow the idea there is no developer shortage at all, which is what sparked this thread.

Re: Ask HN: Why not more hiring of junior devs, then on-the-job-training?

#476

Post by mixmastamyk »

jogjayr wrote: post #473
mixmastamyk wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many fantastic devs that don’t chase fashion.

Trying out new technologies isn't "chasing fashion". It's an indicator of intellectual curiosity, drive for self-improvement, and openness to new ideas. Blindly adopting everything new and claiming it's the best thing ever is "chasing fashion".

It certainly can be and is largely subjective. But, I bet you know that already.

Re: Ask HN: Why not more hiring of junior devs, then on-the-job-training?

#477

Post by user68858788 »

I missed the boat here. I unfortunately didn't find a mentor with my first two engineering jobs. Now I'm too experienced to be mentored as a junior, but not good enough to be mid level. I've since been unhappily working support roles, getting even further from writing software. At this point I'm stuck deeply in the support trap.

Re: Ask HN: Why not more hiring of junior devs, then on-the-job-training?

#478

Post by Friedduck »

To OP: your easiest path is to try to make contact with someone in a chosen company that is NOT HR. HR won’t look beyond your resume if you have a requirement unchecked.

Leverage your network. If you don’t have one start building it. I personally think it’s easier to identify companies that you’d like to work for and focus on those vs. a shotgun approach.

Re: Ask HN: Why not more hiring of junior devs, then on-the-job-training?

#479

Post by jbob2000 »

sharemywin wrote: post #467
jbob2000 wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the story of the island of misfit toys though; They were still fun toys to play with, but they didn’t fit the mould, and so didn’t get sold. I don’t find it denigrating, but I also was a bit of a punk in high school, so it’s a label I’m comfortable with.

I think you might be comfortable with it. But, any one that isn't would smile and take your offer then leave as soon as some one comes along that doesn't call them a toy.

Oh yes, because I definitely openly call people misfit toys, especially when I have just met them and am interviewing them for a professional job. Come on, it’s just a metaphor I use in my head. Have you even seen the movie?

Re: Ask HN: Why not more hiring of junior devs, then on-the-job-training?

#480

Post by sharemywin »

jbob2000 wrote: post #479
sharemywin wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you might be comfortable with it. But, any one that isn't would smile and take your offer then leave as soon as some one comes along that doesn't call them a toy.

Oh yes, because I definitely openly call people misfit toys, especially when I have just met them and am interviewing them for a professional job. Come on, it’s just a metaphor I use in my head. Have you even seen the movie?

I'm not say you openly call them that. but, you have to be careful about subordinates. A lot of them like to smile and agree then be pissed behind your back.
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