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AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

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Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#371

Post by yesenadam »

nitrogen wrote: post #134
nabla9 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fines should be some percentage of income. Here in Finland the record speeding ticked is over 100,000 euros. One guy in Switzerland received $1 million speeding ticket for driving his Mercedes SLS AMG over 280 km/h. That's how hit should be.

Scaling fines up to higher incomes for things that don't really matter (jaywalking, minor traffic violations) seems antithetical to the individualistic core of American culture. We typically try to equalize society by raising the floor for the many, rather than lowering the ceiling for the few.

..the individualistic core of American culture. We typically try to equalize society by raising the floor for the many, rather than lowering the ceiling for the few.

That's what they teach you anyway. The reality - e.g. ridiculously expensive medical bills, widespread poverty - is rather different, so I hear.

e.g. see The US has a lot of money, but it does not look like a developed country https://qz.com/879092/the-us-doesnt-look-like-a-developed-co...

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#372

Post by wvh »

askvictor wrote: post #168
goatsi wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I am lucky. I can pay that. It sucks but some people would be out food money if they suddenly had to pay $500 to drive again. Absolutely, court fees and fines disproportionately punish those with low incomes. Increasing enforcement of low level violations by surveillance tech and/or AI is going to crush a lot of people if we don't change that fact. https://www.npr.org/2014/05/19/312158516/increasing-court-fe... http…

Finland, I believe, scales fines proportionally to your income. Not perfect (the rich can more easily hide their income than the not so rich), but a good start.

If you are driving slightly over the speed limit, it is a traffic violation with a fixed amount fine. If you are driving 10% or 15% (don't remember) over the speed limit, it becomes a criminal violation which then takes your reported income into consideration.

Those fines hurt.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#373

Post by piva00 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #336
jrumbut wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be noted that many countries that have proportional fines seem to consider speeding to be somewhere close to the severity the American legal system assigns to drunk driving. It shocks me a little to think of a 14 days worth of income fine for going 45mph in a 30mph zone, yet when I think of the massive death toll from driving it's very possible my attitudes are not where they should be.

It's a bit of a tangent, but all the roads I've seen labeled 30mph or 35mph would be quite safe to take at 45. The flow of traffic is 5mph over anyway. But this is with residential roads universally at 25mph. I'm not sure what kind of road he was on.

How do you determine "safe to take at 45"? Kinetic energy increases quadratically to speed, so your braking distance is much larger and doesn't scale linearly to speed so, no, just because you feel your car can safely take those roads at 5-10mph over the limit doesn't mean it's safe, the environment dictates the speed limit, not the road conditions per se.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#374

Post by arghwhat »

Bendingo wrote: post #310
arghwhat wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hah, well, the life-reducing stress I refer to in other comments were taken from my own experience. I'm working a full-time job, doing consultancy work on the side to help cover costs, and trying to build a company myself while doing all that. Apart from the time spent telling people that they are wrong on the internet (which is incredibly unproductive, as it is both stressful and generally a waste of time, but https…

> Apart from the time spent telling people that they are wrong on the internet (which is incredibly unproductive ...) Thx - I needed a laugh

You're welcome. It appears as if not many understood the sarcasm, despite the xkcd reference...

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#375

Post by 113 »

shaklee3 wrote: post #319
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UK has never had jaywalking laws. Most countries don't. We have crossings too, of course, which are optional, but sensible to use when it's rush hours etc. There's no sign that our collisions or injuries are disproportionately high. A pedestrian crosses when they feel it is safe to do so, and anywhere along the road they choose. Having started to cross they have priority over traffic. Lately some drivers are less inc…

I googled this quickly, and I'm seeing the UK has 36 deaths per billion miles driven [1] and USA is 1.7 [2]. Can you cite your sources that the UK isn't disproportionately high? I could be reading the numbers wrong. [1] https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... [2] https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/11/4/232

People in the US cover more miles more often. The UK is only small.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#376

Post by 113 »

vkou wrote: post #322
Dylan16807 wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure it works fine in practice, but it's still not ideal if you can put one foot into the street and oblige cars to slam on their brakes.

If as a driver, you aren't willing to slam on the brakes, to avoid killing someone, because you feel you have right of way... You shouldn't be driving. Your first goal, as a driver, should be avoiding accidents. Your second goal should be following the rules of the road. A human life is more important then enforcing your claim to the right of way.

"Aha, you fool! You have obstructed my right of way and now you must die."

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#377

Post by DanBC »

cja wrote: post #370
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UK has never had jaywalking laws. Most countries don't. We have crossings too, of course, which are optional, but sensible to use when it's rush hours etc. There's no sign that our collisions or injuries are disproportionately high. A pedestrian crosses when they feel it is safe to do so, and anywhere along the road they choose. Having started to cross they have priority over traffic. Lately some drivers are less inc…

"Having started to cross they have priority over traffic" - Not true and potentially dangerous misinformation. Jaywalking controls are stupid because: 1. They restrict the freedom of pedestrians. 2. They encourage extra pedestrian crossings, which increases the number of hazards to drivers. 3. They move responsibility for pedestrian safety from pedestrians to drivers. As a Briton, it always feels like living in some…

> "Having started to cross they have priority over traffic" - Not true and potentially dangerous misinformation.

It is true at junctions. Rule 170.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/using-the-road-...

> 3. Road junctions

> 170. Take extra care at junctions. You should

[...]

> Watch out for pedestrians crossing a road into which you are turning. If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#378

Post by 113 »

QasimK wrote: post #367
esotericn wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much. The same exists in the UK in all sorts of fields. My preferred strategy is repeated escalation mixed with what I'd call some variant of baby language. "You owe me X, please send me X, your internal processes are broken, please send me X". "No, I don't care about your internal processes, you owe me X, please send me X." "You haven't sent me X yet; can you send me X or do I need to initiate legal action?"…

I’ve always had excellent, and prompt customer service from Amazon. I’m curious to know what kinds of issues have you encountered where you were unhappy with how they dealt with it?

It's weird how someone like this always pops up when someone complains about customer service.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#379

Post by DanBC »

shaklee3 wrote: post #319
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UK has never had jaywalking laws. Most countries don't. We have crossings too, of course, which are optional, but sensible to use when it's rush hours etc. There's no sign that our collisions or injuries are disproportionately high. A pedestrian crosses when they feel it is safe to do so, and anywhere along the road they choose. Having started to cross they have priority over traffic. Lately some drivers are less inc…

I googled this quickly, and I'm seeing the UK has 36 deaths per billion miles driven [1] and USA is 1.7 [2]. Can you cite your sources that the UK isn't disproportionately high? I could be reading the numbers wrong. [1] https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... [2] https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/11/4/232

What is being counted?

Have I got this right?

In the UK it appears they're counting the deaths per billion miles that people walk.

In your BMJ article it appears they're counting deaths per billion miles that people drive.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#380

Post by bicubic »

salvar wrote: post #369
bicubic wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The solution to fines is to simply get rid of fines and instead use a more aggressive "point" system. You're assuming the problem that fines address is modifying driver behaviour. It isn't. The primary problem fines address is revenue.

That's quite the brush you're painting with there. Is the primary motivation behind fining the same everywhere?

If the primary motivation anywhere was to alter driver behaviour, a points based penalty system is all it would take. Monetary fines in traffic infringements are entirely for revenue.

Anecdote time: a friend from one of the nation's major universities was involved in a road authority funded study to evaluate the safety impact of newly installed speed cameras at several intersections.

They found there was none. Said road authority pulled the plug and pretended like the study never existed after that.

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