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AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

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Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#131

Post by icebraining »

paganel wrote: post #99
icebraining wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give me an example of such a dictatorship?

Ceasescu’s fall was mostly caused by part of Romanian Securitate going against him, the same Securitate that was controlling the local police force. So much so that Ceausescu was still in power on December 21st 1989 when the local police was actively repressing the anti-Ceausescu street protests but had to escape by helicopter the following day once the same police force stopped fighting and killing the Romanian prot…

So nobody had to replace tens of thousands of police officers to change the regime?

In my opinion, that just undermines the point. Nothing would have changed if the Securitate was controlling a bunch of AI sensors and such rather than a bunch of police officers.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#132

Post by mytherin »

pteredactyl wrote: post #105
reaperducer wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's China. So she's just have her social credit score repeatedly dinged every time the bus ran a red light until she wasn't allowed to travel anymore, wasn't allowed to work anymore, wasn't allowed to have a bank account, or allowed out of her apartment. Bureaucracy is so much more efficient when everything is automated, and we're all tabulated. We can just let the computers disappear troublesome people. If a few pe…

This is exactly why the role of the state, in general, needs a much closer examination.

The exact same things are done constantly by big companies (Google, Apple, etc.). The only difference is you have much less recourse when it happens there. At least the government gives you rights you can fight for in court.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#133

Post by skywhopper »

burfog wrote: post #109
goatsi wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I am lucky. I can pay that. It sucks but some people would be out food money if they suddenly had to pay $500 to drive again. Absolutely, court fees and fines disproportionately punish those with low incomes. Increasing enforcement of low level violations by surveillance tech and/or AI is going to crush a lot of people if we don't change that fact. https://www.npr.org/2014/05/19/312158516/increasing-court-fe... http…

NOTE: not specifically about jaywalking, but about fines/fees being disproportionate punishment in general Jail disproportionately punishes those who are working. (they lose their income source, then they can't pay bills, then their house gets foreclosed, etc.) Ditching punishment entirely means free-for-all anarchy until somebody takes that opportunity to impose a government with punishments. What options are left?…

You seem to be willfully misunderstanding the point. But I suspect that’s intentional. If you really think this, please do some reading on the subject of how court fees and small-scale civil violations and all the consequences of those things can lead to a vicious cycle of financial destruction for families on the edge of economic self sufficiency.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#134

Post by nitrogen »

nabla9 wrote: post #128
burfog wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NOTE: not specifically about jaywalking, but about fines/fees being disproportionate punishment in general Jail disproportionately punishes those who are working. (they lose their income source, then they can't pay bills, then their house gets foreclosed, etc.) Ditching punishment entirely means free-for-all anarchy until somebody takes that opportunity to impose a government with punishments. What options are left?…

Fines should be some percentage of income. Here in Finland the record speeding ticked is over 100,000 euros. One guy in Switzerland received $1 million speeding ticket for driving his Mercedes SLS AMG over 280 km/h. That's how hit should be.

Scaling fines up to higher incomes for things that don't really matter (jaywalking, minor traffic violations) seems antithetical to the individualistic core of American culture. We typically try to equalize society by raising the floor for the many, rather than lowering the ceiling for the few.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#135

Post by will_brown »

raleigh_user wrote: post #44

Heres further proof the justice system is screwed. Yesterday I was stopped while driving for not having current tags. Registration was renewed but I didn't have the sticker yet. Cop looked at my paperwork said all good be back in 5. Come to find out, I haven't had a valid license in 5 years. There was a mistake in court 5 years ago when I paid a fine (speeding ticket). I have a receipt from court saying all settled/m…

It’s funny but at the end of the day what youre talking about is the realization of idiocracy through our implementation of shitty “automation” using software.

I mean basically you have a computer system where the court system, law enforcement and DMV are all saying your license is expired for failure to pay...when you actually paid. Now you are getting more tickets and basically stuck in an infinite loop of hell.

I’m currently going through the same thing with my Bank (BOA), where my car window was smashed my wallet (credit and debit card stolen) and cards were used by the 2 theives at footlocker for ~$500. The bank software even caught the fraud first and texted me about suspicious activity on the cards before I knew what happened, the cards were reported stolen, I have a police report, but Bank of America keeps denying my claim saying they investigated and the purchase was legit because my “chip was present” even though they know the card was stolen and used by the theives. When I talk to a person it’s always “oh let me reinitiate a new claim and I’ll make detailed notes, you should definitely get your money back, that makes no sense.” Automated claim comes back “denied. Valid transaction, chip present.”

Like you I will probably have to take legal action to sort this out, at least in my case I’m a lawyer and can file a small claims case without paying a lawyer, but i will have to front the filing fees out of pocket and it will still cost me time/effort.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#136

Post by 549362-30499 »

raleigh_user wrote: post #81
ams6110 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are hiring a lawyer to help with this, sure you will have to pay his fees, which are probably going to be several hundred dollars at least. Did you try just going into the office of the clerk of the court with the receipt and saying "hey there's been a mistake."

The office of the clerk of court is hours away in another state. And its been the weekend so hasn't been open. Based on the traffic record I pulled on myself yesterday it shows payment never received from the court, although I have a receipt for $312 bucks paid. Maybe a simple fix but Im paying to have someone take care of it. Since I now have a court date in another city I live hours from during a work week.

Did you not change your address and license when you moved states? That's typically required within 30 or 60 days, although a lot of people do ignore those laws.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#137

Post by icebraining »

mytherin wrote: post #132
pteredactyl wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly why the role of the state, in general, needs a much closer examination.

The exact same things are done constantly by big companies (Google, Apple, etc.). The only difference is you have much less recourse when it happens there. At least the government gives you rights you can fight for in court.

What's the process for fighting this in a Chinese court?

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#138

Post by nickez »

wgerard wrote: post #129
jrockway wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the case of jaywalking, the answer is simple. You just make it legal. Cars can slow down. For routes that need to be able to move at high speed, you build in grade separation. Jaywalking was just a "growth hack" that needs to be reverted. Society needed fast transportation, and it was developed at any cost. The cost is now too high, so we just roll it back. No torture required....

> In the case of jaywalking, the answer is simple. You just make it legal. Cars can slow down. Mmmm I dunno about that. Drivers have minimum reaction times and cars have stopping distances. Giving pedestrians the right-of-way in every situation seems like a recipe for a lot of collisions. It could work, but I think it would involve re-designing countless intersections to provide higher visibility of pedestrians for d…

This is how it works in Sweden and I believe we have even fewer road casualties than the US.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#140

Post by maxxxxx »

ams6110 wrote: post #71
tjoff wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say that the automation enables it to be an order of magnitude worse. And it will be worse for any entity that doesn't really care about it.

It's probably worse for a few, and better for a lot. Maybe the Google automation is shutting down a hundred nefarious developers for every one legitimate developer. Without the automation all would be active; with the automation one guy gets screwed and it's hard for him to navigate his way back, but thousands of users are better off

Most justice systems are built on the assumption that it's better to let 100 guilty people go than convicting one innocent person. Once we accept that it's OK to convict innocent people as long as the averages are fine then we are heading into serious trouble.
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