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Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#31

Post by detaro »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #24
grzm wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I included the part on free-riding/non-immunized populations because as the number of free-riders increases the effectiveness of herd immunity decreases, which I believe directly addresses your point of why people do care how many people are not immunized. You may not agree, but that's the reason people care.

Logically speaking someone with AIDS is a "free-rider" from this logical perspective. How is this person different from a healthy person that chooses not to vaccinate? The logical argument seems to be that "intent" determines if you are a threat or someone to be protected? Again, by the same logical arguments people with AIDS can't go to a foreign country that doesn't vaccinate?

It's surely not a surprising concept that someone who chooses to put other people at risk is viewed differently than someone that can't make that choice?

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#32

Post by jerkstate »

conanbatt wrote: post #21
cmurf wrote: post #18

This was chickenpox. Imagine if it were rubella. Or polio. They can't be physically or economically coerced by a government because of the religious exemption, so far that's the law of the land as the Supreme Court conservative shift gave us the Hobby Lobby case. So there's nothing to do about it legally in the near term, short of something so horrific that even the conservative court reverses itself somehow. But I w…

> if you're not immunized, we won't cover your hospitalization; and refuse to hire people who's immunizations aren't up to date. Can this also apply for alcohol drinking, unhealthy food habits, lack of exercise?

Well it does already, if you apply for life insurance they do a alcohol/drug test, nicotine test, BMI, weight, blood pressure, heart rate etc.

Some companies insurers offer this sort of test to their employees for a health insurance "rebate" if you are deemed healthy.

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#33

Post by RobertRoberts »

shepardrtc wrote: post #23
RobertRoberts wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is _exactly_ the reason why we wanted our kids to get chicken pox! Or at least that is the story we have all been told. I know personally at least 3 elderly people that have had shingles (or do right now) that had chicken pox as kids.

You misunderstand. Shingles are a resurgence of chickenpox when you're old and your immune system is too weak to fight it off. Chickenpox is herpes. It hides in your body, but as long as you're healthy, your immune system doesn't have much issue fighting it off. When you get old, then it can come back and be potentially deadly.

[flagged]

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#34

Post by shepardrtc »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #24
grzm wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I included the part on free-riding/non-immunized populations because as the number of free-riders increases the effectiveness of herd immunity decreases, which I believe directly addresses your point of why people do care how many people are not immunized. You may not agree, but that's the reason people care.

Logically speaking someone with AIDS is a "free-rider" from this logical perspective. How is this person different from a healthy person that chooses not to vaccinate? The logical argument seems to be that "intent" determines if you are a threat or someone to be protected? Again, by the same logical arguments people with AIDS can't go to a foreign country that doesn't vaccinate?

If you mean HIV, which most intelligent people would understand that it is the cause of the syndrome called AIDS, then it is much more difficult to contract that Chickenpox. Either via blood transfusion or sex, both of which are controllable by the infected. If the infected choose to bring the risk to others and infect them, they can be held criminally liable.

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#35

Post by [deleted] »

shepardrtc wrote: post #20
RobertRoberts wrote: post #5

[flagged]

> one unvaccinated child is a risk to a school full of vaccinated children? No. That child is at risk from the vaccinated children. The vaccinated children can still carry the virus but it may not have much of an effect on them. It will, however, have full effect on the unvaccinated child, which can then infect those who are too weak to get vaccines, such as elderly and the very young.

[deleted]

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#36

Post by RobertRoberts »

cmurf wrote: post #27
RobertRoberts wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is _exactly_ the reason why we wanted our kids to get chicken pox! Or at least that is the story we have all been told. I know personally at least 3 elderly people that have had shingles (or do right now) that had chicken pox as kids.

That's the wrong logic. Getting chickenpox disease makes shingles possible, as the body replicates the virus and then it lies dormant to become reactivated decades later as shingles. If you avoid chickenpox disease through vaccination, you have a 50/50 chance of avoiding shingles entirely and if you do still get it, it will be milder because there was less replication when you had chickenpox. http://www.nfid.org/publ…

This has been the logic up until the day a chicken pox vaccine was created. Some people have worse reactions to vaccines than just scars and itching.

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#37

Post by berberous »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #5

[flagged]

On herd immunity, different diseases (due to how contagious it is, how fast is spreads, etc.) have different rates at which the population must be immunized in order to provide herd immunity. For example, a quick google search says that Measles is so highly contagious that you need 95%+ immunized to provide herd immunity. In places with lost of anti-vaxxers (e.g. California), you can easily have over 5% of the local population starting to believe this anti-vax non-sense.

As for why herd immunity is important, please read this recent twitter thread from the mother of a young child with cancer: https://twitter.com/SteamLaundry/status/1065153914100604928

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#38

Post by krapp »

cmsj wrote: post #3
methodover wrote: post #2

We need to figure out how to better persuade people to get their kids vaccinated. Perhaps a mix of education targeted at families who claim these exemptions, and fines to represent the negative externality of their choices?

or just make vaccines mandatory for every child able to have them?

That's a good way to ensure anti-vaxxers are both paranoid and violent.

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#39

Post by shepardrtc »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #26
shepardrtc wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chickenpox can be deadly: https://www.cdc.gov/features/preventchickenpox/index.html Please read up on diseases before you try to infect your children with them.

Again, _everyone_ got it when we were kids. You can die of a cold if your body is weak enough.

But there is now a vaccine that can prevent it. One which has no other side effects. There is no reason not to get it.

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#40

Post by strictnein »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #29
mcculley wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it does not "transfer immunity". It simply makes the environment of other potential carriers much safer for children who are unvaccinated, not yet vaccinated (e.g., for age reasons), or whose vaccination is not completely effective (vaccinations can fail).

[flagged]

> I've never seen any data on this

Google exists. Stop moving goalposts and asking endless questions.

Measles: 97% effective

https://www.cdc.gov/measles/vaccination.html

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