Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years • Hacker News Board

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#21

Post by conanbatt » Fri, Nov 23, 2018, 5:08 PM UTC

cmurf wrote: post #18

This was chickenpox. Imagine if it were rubella. Or polio. They can't be physically or economically coerced by a government because of the religious exemption, so far that's the law of the land as the Supreme Court conservative shift gave us the Hobby Lobby case. So there's nothing to do about it legally in the near term, short of something so horrific that even the conservative court reverses itself somehow. But I w…

> if you're not immunized, we won't cover your hospitalization; and refuse to hire people who's immunizations aren't up to date.

Can this also apply for alcohol drinking, unhealthy food habits, lack of exercise?

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#22

Post by mcculley » Fri, Nov 23, 2018, 5:09 PM UTC

RobertRoberts wrote: post #9

mcculley wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity (in case it is the misspelling that is keeping you in the dark). It is all about reducing the probability to almost zero once you hit a threshold.

[flagged]

No, it does not "transfer immunity". It simply makes the environment of other potential carriers much safer for children who are unvaccinated, not yet vaccinated (e.g., for age reasons), or whose vaccination is not completely effective (vaccinations can fail).

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#23

Post by shepardrtc » Fri, Nov 23, 2018, 5:09 PM UTC

RobertRoberts wrote: post #14

jesseb wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Shingles is awful, for one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shingles

This is _exactly_ the reason why we wanted our kids to get chicken pox! Or at least that is the story we have all been told. I know personally at least 3 elderly people that have had shingles (or do right now) that had chicken pox as kids.

You misunderstand. Shingles are a resurgence of chickenpox when you're old and your immune system is too weak to fight it off. Chickenpox is herpes. It hides in your body, but as long as you're healthy, your immune system doesn't have much issue fighting it off. When you get old, then it can come back and be potentially deadly.

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#24

Post by RobertRoberts » Fri, Nov 23, 2018, 5:09 PM UTC

grzm wrote: post #12

RobertRoberts wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is my point. Who cares how many people in the US don't get vaccines if the "vast majority" do?

I included the part on free-riding/non-immunized populations because as the number of free-riders increases the effectiveness of herd immunity decreases, which I believe directly addresses your point of why people do care how many people are not immunized. You may not agree, but that's the reason people care.

Logically speaking someone with AIDS is a "free-rider" from this logical perspective. How is this person different from a healthy person that chooses not to vaccinate?

The logical argument seems to be that "intent" determines if you are a threat or someone to be protected?

Again, by the same logical arguments people with AIDS can't go to a foreign country that doesn't vaccinate?

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#25

Post by conanbatt » Fri, Nov 23, 2018, 5:10 PM UTC

methodover wrote: post #2

We need to figure out how to better persuade people to get their kids vaccinated. Perhaps a mix of education targeted at families who claim these exemptions, and fines to represent the negative externality of their choices?

What better way to persuade than to pay for it.

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#26

Post by RobertRoberts » Fri, Nov 23, 2018, 5:11 PM UTC

shepardrtc wrote: post #13

RobertRoberts wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are getting voted down, but I _wanted_ all my kids to get chicken pox. We tried to get them together with other kids that have it so they could get it. Everyone got chicken pox decades ago, it was expected. No one cared. Why does anyone care now?

Chickenpox can be deadly: https://www.cdc.gov/features/preventchickenpox/index.html Please read up on diseases before you try to infect your children with them.

Again, _everyone_ got it when we were kids. You can die of a cold if your body is weak enough.

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#27

Post by cmurf » Fri, Nov 23, 2018, 5:12 PM UTC

RobertRoberts wrote: post #14

jesseb wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Shingles is awful, for one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shingles

This is _exactly_ the reason why we wanted our kids to get chicken pox! Or at least that is the story we have all been told. I know personally at least 3 elderly people that have had shingles (or do right now) that had chicken pox as kids.

That's the wrong logic. Getting chickenpox disease makes shingles possible, as the body replicates the virus and then it lies dormant to become reactivated decades later as shingles. If you avoid chickenpox disease through vaccination, you have a 50/50 chance of avoiding shingles entirely and if you do still get it, it will be milder because there was less replication when you had chickenpox.

http://www.nfid.org/publications/factsheets/varicellaadult.p...

Getting chickenpox on purpose is not as good or better than getting vaccinated for it.

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#28

Post by oldgradstudent » Fri, Nov 23, 2018, 5:13 PM UTC

jesseb wrote: post #10

RobertRoberts wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are getting voted down, but I _wanted_ all my kids to get chicken pox. We tried to get them together with other kids that have it so they could get it. Everyone got chicken pox decades ago, it was expected. No one cared. Why does anyone care now?

Because Shingles is awful, for one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shingles

Shingles and adult chickenpox are the reasons the UK National Health Service does not vaccinate against chickenpox.

https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/childrens-health/...

They do vaccinate pregnant women who never got chickenpox and people with weakened immune system, though.

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#29

Post by RobertRoberts » Fri, Nov 23, 2018, 5:14 PM UTC

mcculley wrote: post #22

RobertRoberts wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

No, it does not "transfer immunity". It simply makes the environment of other potential carriers much safer for children who are unvaccinated, not yet vaccinated (e.g., for age reasons), or whose vaccination is not completely effective (vaccinations can fail).

[flagged]

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#30

Post by shepardrtc » Fri, Nov 23, 2018, 5:14 PM UTC

RobertRoberts wrote: post #16

topher515 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But somehow, in the US one unvaccinated child is a risk to a school full of vaccinated children? This doesn't make sense. You're misunderstanding who is at risk in this scenario. It is not the vaccinated who are at risk; it is the unvaccinated . The unvaccinated are protected by the "wall" of immune people separating them from the sick. The fewer and farther between are the at-risk, the decreased likelihood of tran…

> The unvaccinated are protected by the "wall" of immune people separating them from the sick. Are you saying that _only_ unvaccinated kids get sick? And that they are _only_ protected by "space" made by vaccinated kids? Newborn infants are protected by colostrum, look this one up if you are unaware of it. Other sick people I addressed in my initial point, they seem to be a threat based on your logic, not someone who…

> Are you saying that _only_ unvaccinated kids get sick? And that they are _only_ protected by "space" made by vaccinated kids?

You have an incredibly poor understanding of vaccines and viruses.

The virus is going to spread regardless of vaccinations. But people who are vaccinated can fight it off much more easily and quickly. That lowers the risk dramatically for the unvaccinated when the vaccinated get rid of quickly. When you're fully infected, you're a carrier for much longer.