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Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#11

Post by RobertRoberts »

grzm wrote: post #8
RobertRoberts wrote: post #5

[flagged]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity > "In a population in which a large number of individuals are immune, chains of infection are likely to be disrupted, which stops or slows the spread of disease. The greater the proportion of individuals in a community who are immune, the smaller the probability that those who are not immune will come into contact with an infectious individual." https://en.wikipedia.org/wik…

This is my point. Who cares how many people in the US don't get vaccines if the "vast majority" do?

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#12

Post by grzm »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #11
grzm wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity > "In a population in which a large number of individuals are immune, chains of infection are likely to be disrupted, which stops or slows the spread of disease. The greater the proportion of individuals in a community who are immune, the smaller the probability that those who are not immune will come into contact with an infectious individual." https://en.wikipedia.org/wik…

This is my point. Who cares how many people in the US don't get vaccines if the "vast majority" do?

I included the part on free-riding/non-immunized populations because as the number of free-riders increases the effectiveness of herd immunity decreases, which I believe directly addresses your point of why people do care how many people are not immunized. You may not agree, but that's the reason people care.

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#13

Post by shepardrtc »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #6
oldgradstudent wrote: post #4

This is hilarious. Most of Western Europe does not vaccinate against chickenpox. https://vaccine-schedule.ecdc.europa.eu/Scheduler/ByDisease?... There are 600,000 cases every year just in the UK, but the Washington Post doesn't even bother mentioning that there is a disagreement between national health organizations about the cost benefit trade-off of vaccinating against chickenpox.

You are getting voted down, but I _wanted_ all my kids to get chicken pox. We tried to get them together with other kids that have it so they could get it. Everyone got chicken pox decades ago, it was expected. No one cared. Why does anyone care now?

Chickenpox can be deadly: https://www.cdc.gov/features/preventchickenpox/index.html

Please read up on diseases before you try to infect your children with them.

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#14

Post by RobertRoberts »

jesseb wrote: post #10
RobertRoberts wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are getting voted down, but I _wanted_ all my kids to get chicken pox. We tried to get them together with other kids that have it so they could get it. Everyone got chicken pox decades ago, it was expected. No one cared. Why does anyone care now?

Because Shingles is awful, for one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shingles

This is _exactly_ the reason why we wanted our kids to get chicken pox!

Or at least that is the story we have all been told. I know personally at least 3 elderly people that have had shingles (or do right now) that had chicken pox as kids.

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#15

Post by topher515 »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #5

[flagged]

> But somehow, in the US one unvaccinated child is a risk to a school full of vaccinated children? This doesn't make sense.

You're misunderstanding who is at risk in this scenario. It is not the vaccinated who are at risk; it is the unvaccinated.

The unvaccinated are protected by the "wall" of immune people separating them from the sick. The fewer and farther between are the at-risk, the decreased likelihood of transmission.

You might say "but those people took that risk on their own"; but thats not the case for many people. i.e., Newborn infants, Individuals who are immunodeficient due to HIV/AIDS, lymphoma, leukemia, bone marrow cancer, an impaired spleen, chemotherapy, etc.[1].

Essentially, those who cannot become immune are only protected by herd immunity. And every additional non-immune person in that pool increases the risk to all the others. So everytime someone chooses to remain immune they are hurting that whole pool, some of whom cannot choose.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity#Protection_of_th...

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#16

Post by RobertRoberts »

topher515 wrote: post #15
RobertRoberts wrote: post #5

[flagged]

> But somehow, in the US one unvaccinated child is a risk to a school full of vaccinated children? This doesn't make sense. You're misunderstanding who is at risk in this scenario. It is not the vaccinated who are at risk; it is the unvaccinated . The unvaccinated are protected by the "wall" of immune people separating them from the sick. The fewer and farther between are the at-risk, the decreased likelihood of tran…

>The unvaccinated are protected by the "wall" of immune people separating them from the sick.

Are you saying that _only_ unvaccinated kids get sick? And that they are _only_ protected by "space" made by vaccinated kids?

Newborn infants are protected by colostrum, look this one up if you are unaware of it.

Other sick people I addressed in my initial point, they seem to be a threat based on your logic, not someone who needs protecting.

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#17

Post by cromwellian »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #6
oldgradstudent wrote: post #4

This is hilarious. Most of Western Europe does not vaccinate against chickenpox. https://vaccine-schedule.ecdc.europa.eu/Scheduler/ByDisease?... There are 600,000 cases every year just in the UK, but the Washington Post doesn't even bother mentioning that there is a disagreement between national health organizations about the cost benefit trade-off of vaccinating against chickenpox.

You are getting voted down, but I _wanted_ all my kids to get chicken pox. We tried to get them together with other kids that have it so they could get it. Everyone got chicken pox decades ago, it was expected. No one cared. Why does anyone care now?

I had chickenpox as a kid and I would never wish it on my children. Besides being absolutely miserable for a week and having to sit in a tub or shower all day to avoid the itch, it left lifelong scars on my forehead and other areas.

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#18

Post by cmurf »

This was chickenpox. Imagine if it were rubella. Or polio.

They can't be physically or economically coerced by a government because of the religious exemption, so far that's the law of the land as the Supreme Court conservative shift gave us the Hobby Lobby case. So there's nothing to do about it legally in the near term, short of something so horrific that even the conservative court reverses itself somehow.

But I wonder to what degree insurers and businesses could affect the decision making: if you're not immunized, we won't cover your hospitalization; and refuse to hire people who's immunizations aren't up to date.

I've been an employer, and if I'm the one paying for a majority of health care premiums, I'd absolutely be on board with discriminating in hiring people who think immunizations are some b.s. conspiracy. That sort of paranoia is a hiring risk even aside from the loss of herd immunity.

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#19

Post by FlyMoreRockets »

methodover wrote: post #2

We need to figure out how to better persuade people to get their kids vaccinated. Perhaps a mix of education targeted at families who claim these exemptions, and fines to represent the negative externality of their choices?

Only vaccinate the kids you want to keep.

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#20

Post by shepardrtc »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #5

[flagged]

> one unvaccinated child is a risk to a school full of vaccinated children?

No. That child is at risk from the vaccinated children. The vaccinated children can still carry the virus but it may not have much of an effect on them. It will, however, have full effect on the unvaccinated child, which can then infect those who are too weak to get vaccines, such as elderly and the very young.

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