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International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

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Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#361

Post by Nursie »

blhack wrote: post #256
naikrovek wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are definitely (and thankfully) not the norm. Imperial units are awful. They're more ... human, maybe, in that a foot is about one human foot long, and that an inch is about one human thumb width, and how 0F feels "pretty cold" and 100F feels "pretty hot", and to me the charm of imperial units begins and ends right there. Those are literally the only redeemable qualities about imperial units, and they have nothin…

>They're more ... human, maybe, in that a foot is about one human foot long, and that an inch is about one human thumb width, and how 0F feels "pretty cold" and 100F feels "pretty hot", and to me the charm of imperial units begins and ends right there. As far as we know, humans are the only thing in the universe that care about any of this stuff. A computer couldn't care less if you are using 1 foot or 0.3048 meters.…

These units are terrible for humans too.

Humans are good at base 10.

For this human, the relationships when (for instance) talking about water are great -

1g = 1ml = 1cm^3

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#362

Post by Cd00d »

zjaffee wrote: post #305
blhack wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm one of the weird people that actually really likes imperial units. For instance: 1 foot -- base 12. This is a superior base to 10. It can be easily divided into 4ths, 3rd, and 2nds. Base 10 can only easily be divided into 2nds. 1 inch -- an easily identifiable unit of measure for smallish things. About the width of my thumb. A pretty good unit. For low precision, inches become 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/6, 1/64, etc. Each…

While I agree that in many ways imperial is better than metric in the way that you mention. It is absolutely atrocious when it comes to weight and volume. A gallon is still a base 10 unit of measure of water (10 pounds of water). Then only after that, is it in base 8 rather than maintaining that base 12 consistency. Then if you look at imperial units of weight, it deviates away from base 12 again. It counts upwards f…

A gallon is NOT 10 pounds of water.

Rough conversions: 1.1, 2.2, 3.3 for volume (quart to L), weight (pound to kg), length (foot to m).

One gallon is: 4 quarts * (1 L / 1.1 quarts) * (1 kg / L) * (2.2 pounds / kg) = 4 * 2.2 / 1.1, so a gallon is roughly 8 pounds.

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#363

Post by mbroncano »

Just_Smith wrote: post #302
mbroncano wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most probably because you grew up with it. I’m pretty sure you think the same about your religion, nation, race ... but be sure eveybody else in the world may think the same of their own. And they’d be right too. What I personally find disturbing is how irrational positions such as yours are commonly accepted in a supposedly advanced society. It leads to a pretty bumpy road, time and time again.

And what I personally find disturbing is your idea that their view conflicting with yours is somehow an indication that they are obstructing advancement. To me, that seems much more problematic than them favoring the number 12 for common measurements.

Weasel words. I could easily justify pretty much any barbaric idea in the same terms, and it’ll fly among a certain subset of US citizens. Which honestly is worrisome to say the least, regardless of you agreeing with such idea.

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#364

Post by jameshart »

blhack wrote: post #232
kibwen wrote: post #188

See, the US wasn't being stubborn in not adopting metric, it was just waiting patiently for it to progress from beta to 1.0. :) (Fun fact: all the US customary units have been officially defined in terms of their metric counterparts since 1893: https://www.nist.gov/sites/default/files/documents/pml/wmd/m... )

I'm one of the weird people that actually really likes imperial units. For instance: 1 foot -- base 12. This is a superior base to 10. It can be easily divided into 4ths, 3rd, and 2nds. Base 10 can only easily be divided into 2nds. 1 inch -- an easily identifiable unit of measure for smallish things. About the width of my thumb. A pretty good unit. For low precision, inches become 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/6, 1/64, etc. Each…

You're right - imperial is far superior for precise building or manufacturing work.

Take drill bits, for example. Obviously it's much easier to figure out that 11/32" is less than 3/8". Or is it more? No, I'm pretty sure I was right the first time. The metric ones with their 5.5mm, 6mm, 6.5mm sequencing are just too complicated to work with, in comparison. And half a millimeter isn't very precise - it's much bigger than 1/64". Well, a bit bigger. Let's not get into tenths of millimeters.

And at larger scales, of course, base 12 is much easier when it comes to dividing distances. Taking a distance of 2'7" and dividing it by three in your head is much easier than dividing 79cm by three, because... well, 2' divided by three is 8", obviously. If you need to be sure, just tap it into a calculator. That supports base 12...

Anyway, you'll quickly determine that it's 10 1/3", which is much more precise than 26.3333cm. Now I just need to subtract the radii of these two 5/16" holes from that, which is easy - imagine trying to subtract 8mm from 26.3333cm! What folly.

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#365

Post by NeedMoreTea »

jodrellblank wrote: post #333
kbenson wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are actual benefits to some imperial units when working in small amounts. They can often be subdivided much more easily into amounts that are harder to handle (or at least require going to another order of magnitude to do accurately). For example, dividing a foot into thirds or fourths is trivial, but for a meter it requires either going two orders of magnitude (25/100ths for a quarter) or simply cannot perfect…

"It cannot perfectly represent the amount" you say, and then perfectly represent the amount. You represent a quarter as the fraction 25/100ths to show how impractical it is, instead of writing 1/4. Would it be so hard to build a ruler with thirds measured on it, so you don't need to try and guess 0.333333 from mm readings? Like http://teaching.monster.com/nfs/teaching/attachment_images/0... but made of metal

Buy an imperial rule.

There's some inches that are sub-divided into tenths (maybe 1/20), and others sub-divided into sixteenths (maybe 32nds or 64ths). Often with heavier markings on more significance. For easy division and fractioning of whatever it is you are doing.

If it's imperial only (v. rare nowadays) there's usually a coarser scale or two for easier subdivision or when the 16ths and finer just don't matter.

Buy a metric rule.

There's mm, cm, and metres. Nowt else, not even weighting of marks except usually 1cm or 5mm. For measurement this is fine. For division such as in woodwork, metalwork and building, this is often a pain in the ass.

Metric only usually engraves just one side or exactly duplicates. No coarser scales.

So even when working in metric I often find an older imperial rule a better working tool(!)

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#366

Post by zmix »

blhack wrote: post #232
kibwen wrote: post #188

See, the US wasn't being stubborn in not adopting metric, it was just waiting patiently for it to progress from beta to 1.0. :) (Fun fact: all the US customary units have been officially defined in terms of their metric counterparts since 1893: https://www.nist.gov/sites/default/files/documents/pml/wmd/m... )

I'm one of the weird people that actually really likes imperial units. For instance: 1 foot -- base 12. This is a superior base to 10. It can be easily divided into 4ths, 3rd, and 2nds. Base 10 can only easily be divided into 2nds. 1 inch -- an easily identifiable unit of measure for smallish things. About the width of my thumb. A pretty good unit. For low precision, inches become 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/6, 1/64, etc. Each…

I understand, that you know the metric system, and, judging by your reasoning for your love for the imperial system, I understand, that you know what you are talking about (better than me). So, please, do not understand my comment as wanting to advise you! It's just, that I found this (on the web, one day) to express so much the way I (having grown up with the metric system) feel about it:

"In metric, one milliliter of water occupies one cubic centimeter, weighs one gram, and requires one calorie of energy to heat up by one degree centigrade -- which is 1 percent of the difference between its freezing point and its boiling point. An amount of hydrogen weighing the same amount has exactly one mole of atoms in it. Whereas in the American system, the answer to 'How much energy does it take to boil a room-temperature gallon of water?' is 'Go fuck yourself', because you can't directly relate any of those quantities."

From: "Wild Thing" by [Josh Bazell](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_Bazell).

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#367

Post by Zombieball »

Just_Smith wrote: post #326
naikrovek wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're bent on the whole number thing. Why? Whole numbers don't make things easier to measure or cut or reason about. I can measure in thirds or fifths of a meter or a foot or an inch or any unit you want with a compass and a straight edge. You're arguing that the mark on the tape measure is possible for imperial and impossible for metric, when thirds are involved. Not true.

Because infinite numbers are not a natural expression of discrete measurements, and when it comes to being price 1/3 = 4 is always going to be easier to put your finger on than 1/3 = 3.333. I work in software and data analysis in the construction industry. A continuous measurement is good for some things, but it's definitely not good for discrete measurements. Furthermore, a lot of the people who work in the field fo…

> and when it comes to being price 1/3 = 4 is always going to be easier to put your finger on than 1/3 = 3.333.

Am I missing something? Wouldn’t it just be putting your finger on the 10 cm mark? This is approx 4”.

I realize this is not exact conversion, but it’s trivial to come up with examples where metric is easier: say you have a piece of wood 7 7/8” long that you want to cut in half. Is it easier to put your finger on 3 15/16” or 10 cm?

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#368

Post by bunderbunder »

Nursie wrote: post #359
nhebb wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A pint is what British people drink in pubs while chastising the US for not adopting the metric system.

568ml, as god intended. Not some 450ml abomination! We don't really use pints for measuring anything else these days.

If only US pints were a 450ml abomination.

That's about 50ml more than I'm used to getting when I order a "pint".

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#369

Post by fuzzfactor »

dsego wrote: post #353
nhebb wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A pint is what British people drink in pubs while chastising the US for not adopting the metric system.

The metric pint?

When they pour 500 mL into your 1 pint (473 mL) glass.
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