Disneyland with the Death Penalty • Hacker News Board

Re: Disneyland with the Death Penalty

#41

Post by widgetycrank » Fri, Oct 29, 2010, 10:54 AM UTC

jasonjei wrote: post #14

DanielN wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comments like this are what make a binary voting system inefficient. Two thirds of your comment is spot on and pretty much exactly what I came here to say. When I initially viewed your comment it had been down voted and I debated whether or not I should vote it back up. But there are some glaring unfairnesses in your assessment that make me take pause. Suggesting that Hong Kong is the freest state in the region is ki…

Innovation in Asian countries is a huge problem. Part of this is Confucian values. I was educated for two years in Taiwan (my dad's company forced us to move, I was the white-washed Asian). Those brutal memories: I had to stay after school and take remedial work in the Chinese brush because I was barely literate, and every time my stroke was wrong the teacher would slam the brush against my fingers. We had to memoriz…

Pre-Qing dynasty China was a major source of innovations btw.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_inventions

It's interesting to note that almost all the inventions came before the Qing dynasty. Qing's Qianlong Emperor (1711-1799) is considered a "Confucian fundamentalist", who paved the way for the subsequent isolationist policies.

Confucianism is just one school of philosophy among many in China btw. Its influence tends to fluctuate from period to period.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinegar_tasters

Re: Disneyland with the Death Penalty

#42

Post by Confusion » Fri, Oct 29, 2010, 11:15 AM UTC

mmaro wrote: post #26

ugh wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Singapore had a homicide rate of 0.39 per 100,000 in 2006 (that’s more than one or two), Japan had a homicide rate of 0.44 per 100,000 in the same year. European nations like Germany (0.98) or the Netherlands (0.78) are not far off. The USA have the highest homicide rate of all highly developed nations with 5.7 per 100,000 in 2006. (I’m too lazy to look at the statistics right now but I have the strong suspicion that…

Thanks for those numbers. Singapore's (official) homicide rate has gone down even further in recent years, but maybe the others have too. (edit: never mind; my memory/googlefu is failing me) A nitpick: Germany (and many other countries) don't really have free speech because of Holocaust denials laws; the laws are written rather broadly [1]. But sure, it's less onerous than in Singapore. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wi…

No country, the US included, has free speech, because slander and threats are punishable everywhere, even though they are only speech. Countries just disagree on what constitutes slander, a threat and similar universally outlawed acts of speech.

Re: Disneyland with the Death Penalty

#43

Post by ximeng » Fri, Oct 29, 2010, 11:35 AM UTC

IsaacL wrote: post #38

jasonjei wrote: post #2

The author hits it spot on about Singapore. It would probably have more in common with Apple than IBM--efficiently run, capitalist (to an extent), but is more or less a one-party system, as is common in East Asia (with the exception of Australia). Singapore is perhaps the best example of the so-called Apple 1984-ad state of information purity directives. OK, maybe that is an exaggeration. It is more likely the result…

"I would venture to say that it is poster child of libertarianism." Yes, a few wealthy families own half the businesses and property, and can survey their empires from the comfort of their mansions on Victoria peak. Meanwhile, down in Wan Chai Filipina maids moonlight as sex workers, offering handjobs to stressed-out bankers to make ends meet, and over in Tai Kok Tsui elderly Chinese immigrants live in cages. Capital…

Source on the "immigrants in cages"? Tai Kok Tsui seems fairly pleasant and somewhat up-and-coming with new development in west Kowloon.

Edit:

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1917897,00.htm... http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China_Business/KI03Cb02.html

Basically just bunks with wire mesh to protect belongings. You'd not guess from walking around the streets.

Re: Disneyland with the Death Penalty

#44

Post by brown9-2 » Fri, Oct 29, 2010, 11:53 AM UTC

lionhearted wrote: post #39

I'm a fan of Gibson, but this isn't really an accurate description of Singapore. Singapore's overwhelmingly the most functional and prosperous place in Southeast Asia, by any metric or measure. People who love politics don't like Singapore, because Singaporean politics are boring. One group is in charge, they do a pretty good job, and everyone likes them. But outside of politics and drugs, you can do pretty much what…

To be fair, the article is 17 years old.

Re: Disneyland with the Death Penalty

#45

Post by quant18 » Fri, Oct 29, 2010, 12:09 PM UTC

lionhearted wrote: post #39

I'm a fan of Gibson, but this isn't really an accurate description of Singapore. Singapore's overwhelmingly the most functional and prosperous place in Southeast Asia, by any metric or measure. People who love politics don't like Singapore, because Singaporean politics are boring. One group is in charge, they do a pretty good job, and everyone likes them. But outside of politics and drugs, you can do pretty much what…

The second most functional country in SE Asia is Thailand

Malaysia is a lot more functional than Thailand on most measures (GDP per capita, number of coups per decade, corruption perception index, etc.)

In the foreign press they get quite a bad rap ... not only do they hang Aussie drug smugglers like Singapore, but they also have racial discrimination laws, religious police who raid bars and hotels, ex-PMs who spout off about "the Jews", etc. And on the ground, they definitely have worse public safety, more drugs, and more cops asking for "tea money" than Singapore (fewer than Thailand, though).

On the other hand there's less alcohol, bigger houses, and cheaper schools, which means a lot of expats perceive it as more family-friendly than Singapore despite the obvious drawbacks. And in reality, KL still has good nightlife despite the occasional tussle with the Islamic Affairs officers (who don't have any authority over non-Muslims anyway).

The Malaysian legal system isn't great, but it's common law, and it's good enough that all the fund managers are happy to use Labuan as a tax haven and a conduit for investing ... into South Korea, who haven't been very successful in pressuring the Malaysians to take Labuan out of the double-taxation agreement. (This is for example how Newbridge Capital managed to avoid paying capital gains tax on Korea First Bank back in 1998). I can't imagine any fund manager or rich tax evader being happy to park his money in a bank in Bangkok even if their taxes were lower.

On the bright side, and directly on topic for Hacker News: both Malaysia and Singapore beat the pants off of any other place in Asia (including Hong Kong) for the level of support they're giving to startups. The talent pool is better in Singapore (simply cuz so many Malaysian grads end up there and don't want to come back), but the real estate costs are a much bigger barrier. See e.g.

http://www.cradle.com.my/

http://www.technopreneurdevelopment.net.my/

Re: Disneyland with the Death Penalty

#46

Post by notahacker » Fri, Oct 29, 2010, 12:39 PM UTC

hboon wrote: post #20

jasonjei wrote: post #2

The author hits it spot on about Singapore. It would probably have more in common with Apple than IBM--efficiently run, capitalist (to an extent), but is more or less a one-party system, as is common in East Asia (with the exception of Australia). Singapore is perhaps the best example of the so-called Apple 1984-ad state of information purity directives. OK, maybe that is an exaggeration. It is more likely the result…

In fact, I was surprised that all phones in Hong Kong are sold unlocked because government regulations require freedom of phone service. Which is where I bought my iPhone. (And it should come as no surprise that Singapore sells them locked.) For as long as I can remember (and that means the last 10 years), Singapore have always only have unlocked handsets. Articles like these (by an outsider) tends to paint an extrem…

Articles generate more interest when they're black and white though.

It's not that you have to cross the Malaysia border to encounter dirt for the first time, but compared with neighbouring cities, or even parts of European cities that have been built since 1956 - levels of visible dirt and poor people that aren't working are noticeably low in Singapore. The streets might not be paved with gold but they still shine.

You might see vestiges of poverty in sleeping middle-aged "security guards" and armies of immigrant construction workers, and the even poorer denizens of Desker Road that serve their base needs, but you won't encounter homeless people begging for change. HDBs are colourful, well-maintained homes for the people. When I did see a piece of graffiti in Singapore - a political slogan even - I thought it worthy of being photographed.

In London, every ATM machine appears to have a friendly beggar and his dog, our failed attempts at social housing are used as the setting for A Clockwork Orange, and our transport networks are lined with graffiti to the point that sometimes I wonder if it's the only thing holding the crumbling structural fabric together.

And yes, outsiders' analysis of our social and political relations is always amusingly exaggerated and inaccurate. :-)

Re: Disneyland with the Death Penalty

#47

Post by FiddlerClamp » Fri, Oct 29, 2010, 1:28 PM UTC

jasonjei wrote: post #5

jrockway wrote: post #3

Singapore is not that bad. If you stay in the touristy areas, yeah, everything is corporate and efficient seeming. You can go from the airport to your hotel without ever going outside. If you go to where people that live in Singapore go, though, it's just like any other city. Okay, not as cool as Manhattan or Tokyo or Hong Kong or London, but still pretty normal. As for the death penalty, yeah, they have it. Singapor…

Keep in mind the US has more people than Singapore, so the number will obviously be higher for the US. But if we were to enforce drug laws in the US like Singapore, you would see a lot more death sentences. And floggings, if we had that in the States. But yes, I do see it hypocritical when we criticize Singapore. Except it's a bit of a straw man when the US has 300 million (compared to Singapore's 4 million), and eve…

When I visited Hungary in 1988, I was handed a photocopied paper at the border that stated that "Hungary has no drugs, prostitutes, gangs", and so on...good times.

That night we were watching a dubbed version of "9 to 5" on TV, and my mother's cousin asked me if I smoked dope - because all North Americans do, no doubt. :)

Re: Disneyland with the Death Penalty

#48

Post by JoeAltmaier » Fri, Oct 29, 2010, 1:34 PM UTC

lionhearted wrote: post #39

I'm a fan of Gibson, but this isn't really an accurate description of Singapore. Singapore's overwhelmingly the most functional and prosperous place in Southeast Asia, by any metric or measure. People who love politics don't like Singapore, because Singaporean politics are boring. One group is in charge, they do a pretty good job, and everyone likes them. But outside of politics and drugs, you can do pretty much what…

except buy William Gibson novels etc. Anything you want? That sounds like what a contented citizen of 1984 is supposed to say.

Re: Disneyland with the Death Penalty

#49

Post by gthank » Fri, Oct 29, 2010, 2:13 PM UTC

loewenskind wrote: post #31

DanielN wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comments like this are what make a binary voting system inefficient. Two thirds of your comment is spot on and pretty much exactly what I came here to say. When I initially viewed your comment it had been down voted and I debated whether or not I should vote it back up. But there are some glaring unfairnesses in your assessment that make me take pause. Suggesting that Hong Kong is the freest state in the region is ki…

>a key reason there weren't any Walmart types in Hong Kong was because it was more profitable to the Triads to keep all the mom and pop shops in business than to work with larger corporations You're claiming Hong Kong isn't start up friendly because it doesn't support devastating monopolies like Walmart [1]??? Are you seriously telling me that if you went to a country where everywhere you looked you saw people in bus…

I think the point was not that the government is preventing a Wal-Mart-level success story, but that organized crime was preventing a Wal-Mart-level success story.

Say what you want about Wal-Mart (I avoid them like the plague just because I find the shopping experience actively repugnant), but to go from inception to world-dominating monster in ~40 years is impressive.

Re: Disneyland with the Death Penalty

#50

Post by ciupicri » Fri, Oct 29, 2010, 2:13 PM UTC

fungi wrote: post #7

jrockway wrote: post #3

Singapore is not that bad. If you stay in the touristy areas, yeah, everything is corporate and efficient seeming. You can go from the airport to your hotel without ever going outside. If you go to where people that live in Singapore go, though, it's just like any other city. Okay, not as cool as Manhattan or Tokyo or Hong Kong or London, but still pretty normal. As for the death penalty, yeah, they have it. Singapor…

Challenge the Lee dictatorship and comeback and tell us how little they care. Yes they do care and yes they will execute you https://duckduckgo.com/?q=singapore+execute+australian even if you are not a king pin, just some dumb kid. Also don't get stuck there with out health cover/travel insurance or you will regret it, its not malaysia/thailand.

Could you please elaborate on the health cover/travel insurance thing?