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‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

nytimes.com

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Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#171

Post by jedberg »

Apocryphon wrote: post #140
jedberg wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He said "top 50" and by most measures Netflix would be "top 50". That's why I chose it (plus familiarity with it personally). All those other ones you mentioned could be "top 50" as well. In which case, I think the general feeling of external perception is negative for all of them except Dropbox. Op asked "I have to wonder how many of the top 50 or so tech companies have really sterling reputations for warm-hearted g…

I’m not so much disagreeing with you or him as I am with the dumb “FAANG” acronym. Though I think AirBnB has a reputation for being a good work environment and a consumer product, whatever externalities they inflict upon society.

Yeah I personally have no problem with AirBnB, but a lot of people blame them for high rents and removing rental stock.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#172

Post by maxxxxx »

ocschwar wrote: post #160
bradenb wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's because you love your job, you have to pay for that. I don't buy that. I don't think enjoying your job and being paid well need to be mutually exclusive. I think it's in an employer's best interest that their employees enjoy their job. Part of that is that an employee has to not feel the stress of being underpaid or overworked.

They're not mutually exclusive, but they are negatively correlated. The more enjoyable a job is, the lower the salary the boss can offer before people balk at taking it. It isn't something you can suss out in individual cases, but statistically speaking it holds up. When I sysadminned in the turn of the millenium, I could definitely see the pay gap between running systems for corporate America and doing it for scient…

"The more enjoyable a job is, the lower the salary the boss can offer before people balk at taking it. "

This is not in line what I saw when I worked as a contractor. The higher the pay was, the better people got treated. The worst places were non-profits where people took really low salaries. They not only didn't make money but were also treated like sh.t.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#174

Post by leroy_masochist »

stale2002 wrote: post #123
leroy_masochist wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really think about it in terms of an age limit. To spell it out, my quibble is that the reporter quoted these kids by name and got them to agree to have their picture taken for publication, for a story that will likely give at least some prospective employers pause at some point.

I think that people vastly overestimate how much detective work that employers do, when hiring people. I don't think companies are searching people's Twitter or Facebook accounts for controversial statements. The furthest that most would go is to call up a reference or talk to a previous employer. Hiring committees don't have time to scrutinize every little last comment that someone has made.

Scouring someone's Twitter history != Googling someone's name and browsing the first page of results.

The former is overkill, the latter is done by everyone

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#175

Post by avinium »

eksemplar wrote: post #163
cgoecknerwald wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like we recently ordered a system for abused children journals. A nationwide bidding landing in a 120 million danish or deal, for a piece of software that 30 municipalities build an equivalent of on their own for 2 million danish kr a few years back. Can you give the name of this company / case? I can't find anything in English news of Denmark.

The system that won the bidding is called DUBU. https://www.kombit.dk/dubu The system that does the same thing DUBU does today, and the next DUBU will, good enough is called sbsys. It’s not a secret, the 120 million might be 128 million though, but it’s not completely unreasonable for what it’s meant to do, the politics involved and so on. It’s just hilarious that communal co-ownership of software did it for 2 millio…

> I mean you could argue that it’s illustrating how silly enterprise software companies are in general, but it is what it is.

Enterprise software companies know exactly what they're doing - fleecing the government for every single dime they can.

You can't blame them - they're just acting on their natural capitalist instinct to maximize their return to shareholders.

Blame the government for its ridiculously bloated procurement process, uncompetitive career opportunities and a broken management system.

Government waste is utterly gobsmacking.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#176

Post by vonmoltke »

magduf wrote: post #122
gpm wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My theory is that pay and working conditions at Facebook are as good as they are precisely because of people feeling like this. They are having to pay a premium to attract engineers as a result of the moral opposition.

Jobs in the defense industry are probably like this for this reason as well.

Are you kidding? The worst pay, worst perks, and worst working environment I ever had was at a large defense contractor, and I didn't see any of our competitors offering anything better. Almost any established tech company can beat them easily.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#177

Post by Jonanin »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #142
deanmoriarty wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my experience, most of this negativity just appears on HN or on channels who have some strong bias (usually business related) against Facebook. All my acquaintances working in tech, which includes people from very wide sociodemographics ranges, consider Facebook an absolutely prestigious employer, with top talent, top challenges, top compensation and top name for building a personal brand. Hell, I interviewed at…

> Facebook an absolutely prestigious employer Anecdotally, I’m helping several friends, who are each exceptionally capable, employed at Facebook with new jobs. They reached out before this revelation, to their credit, though this threw fuel on the fire. I suspect Facebook will be known for having hired mediocre sell-outs a few years from now.

From your profile:

> I trade private equity stakes in technology companies. Former aerospace investment banker and before that, algorithmic equity derivatives trader.

You're also the one who submitted this article. Somehow I doubt you are actually helping friends at FB find new jobs. I think it's much more likely that you are short FB. There's a lot of your type out there spreading articles like this as much as possible.

Maybe you should spend some time thinking about what contributions you investment banker types are making to society, if there is any. Good riddance...

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#178

Post by quest88 »

deanmoriarty wrote: post #133
eksemplar wrote: post #117

I get that we don’t like Facebook, but isn’t this a bit much? Are they worse than google or amazon? What about people who work for Coca-Cola? What about the people who make mobile games and loot boxes for Blizzard? Where is it ethical to work? I mean, I’ve been in public service for decades, so I know a thing or two about choosing idealism over money, but that’s not for everyone and I frankly don’t think Facebook is…

From my experience, most of this negativity just appears on HN or on channels who have some strong bias (usually business related) against Facebook. All my acquaintances working in tech, which includes people from very wide sociodemographics ranges, consider Facebook an absolutely prestigious employer, with top talent, top challenges, top compensation and top name for building a personal brand. Hell, I interviewed at…

Yea, I know what you mean. It's unfortunate too since FB does hav some pretty cool things that are worth talking about!

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#179

Post by pj_mukh »

tombert wrote: post #167
marssaxman wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same reason you'd work for any startup - because startups are fun and interesting? You get a level of autonomy you can never have at an established company, with freedom to experiment and work creatively.

As someone who has worked for five separate startups, I have to disagree. While you do get close to your teammates, in my experience the managers in startup-land tend to be a lot less flexible because they have their vision of how something is supposed to be done. I work for a giant evil megacorporation now, and I honestly feel like I have more freedom here to explore new stuff than I ever did as a JS/PHP/GOLANG/MONG…

Worked at 3 startups and 2 mega-corps and had the absolute opposite experience.

The only time a manager at a startup was trying to stringently manage me was when he was hired from a mega-corp. Lot of startups make that mistake.

For me, startups still remain the best place to explore new technologies and capabilities (incl. personal upskilling) under a deadline (as opposed to personal projects).

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#180

Post by eksemplar »

sailingparrot wrote: post #158
eksemplar wrote: post #117

I get that we don’t like Facebook, but isn’t this a bit much? Are they worse than google or amazon? What about people who work for Coca-Cola? What about the people who make mobile games and loot boxes for Blizzard? Where is it ethical to work? I mean, I’ve been in public service for decades, so I know a thing or two about choosing idealism over money, but that’s not for everyone and I frankly don’t think Facebook is…

The point is that these peoples in the article have leverage. Companies are competing for them not the other way around, so it's natural for them to consider ethics because it will not affect their standard of living. If I have the choice between working for Palantir or Facebook, I choose Facebook. If have to choose to between Facebook and Apple I choose Apple. Whatever I choose I will still live extremely comfortabl…

Danish CS degrees are in high regard, and we’re all fairly good at English.

There are a lot of Danes in Silicon Valley, I mean, C++, C# and Ruby were made by Danes, so it’s not like Murica isn’t open for us.

You can make a lot of money in IT anywhere though. I manage 70 people, in a muniplacity that is well paid. I’ve been headhunted for much higher salaries throughout my career though, but I’ve always preferred public service.

The fact that I could be home at 15:00 on a Friday, with my kids picked up and the groceries done helped a lot in my younger years as well of course.

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