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‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

nytimes.com

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Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#131

Post by jedberg »

Apocryphon wrote: post #119
jedberg wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say Netflix has a pretty good external reputation. They do good by their customers and don't sell them out. They take your money and show your videos and don't share your data. They have hits and misses on their original content, but they don't actually make that stuff, they just compete with all the other big entertainment outlets to distribute what production companies make. There is of course strong opinions a…

Netflix does as a company to consumers, though among workers their cutthroat culture has been infamous even before the recent NYT profile, though so is their high compensation. I don’t agree with lumping them in with the tech giants though. Why them and not Tesla, Uber, AirBnB, Dropbox, etc.?

He said "top 50" and by most measures Netflix would be "top 50". That's why I chose it (plus familiarity with it personally). All those other ones you mentioned could be "top 50" as well. In which case, I think the general feeling of external perception is negative for all of them except Dropbox.

Op asked "I have to wonder how many of the top 50 or so tech companies have really sterling reputations for warm-hearted goodness." and I threw Netflix out there as a "top 50" that has a warm-hearted (external) reputation.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#132

Post by vonmoltke »

techelitism wrote: post #72

Few comments on this because I think about this quite a bit. 1) I always read these articles and sigh. Seems like they only focus on 2 elite tech companies at the expense of all the others while only interviewing students at the #1 CS school in the country. I feel like a 2nd class citizen in the industry because of it. When will the normal people be heard? 2) I'm kind of surprised they listed a $140k starting pay. Th…

> I'm kind of surprised they listed a $140k starting pay. That's pretty low for new grads in the industry and very low for Facebook.

You are living in a Valley bubble if you think $140k is "pretty low" for a new grad in general, and that's as total comp (not just salary).

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#133

Post by deanmoriarty »

eksemplar wrote: post #117

I get that we don’t like Facebook, but isn’t this a bit much? Are they worse than google or amazon? What about people who work for Coca-Cola? What about the people who make mobile games and loot boxes for Blizzard? Where is it ethical to work? I mean, I’ve been in public service for decades, so I know a thing or two about choosing idealism over money, but that’s not for everyone and I frankly don’t think Facebook is…

From my experience, most of this negativity just appears on HN or on channels who have some strong bias (usually business related) against Facebook.

All my acquaintances working in tech, which includes people from very wide sociodemographics ranges, consider Facebook an absolutely prestigious employer, with top talent, top challenges, top compensation and top name for building a personal brand.

Hell, I interviewed at FB about a year ago and was _thrilled_ to get an offer (which I ultimately didn't accept for other reasons) and I loved the technical challenges that they are working and how they are advancing the state of the art on some really cool scalability problems.

I'll be downvoted, but when it comes to Facebook, HN is a broken record.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#135

Post by Jonanin »

jedberg wrote: post #124
Jonanin wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your impression of how real journalism works is a lot harder to believe. You don't think writers see and care about how many clicks or views their articles get? Everyone knows these metrics are _directly_ correlated with revenue. FB used to drive an insane amount of traffic to these publishers back when our news feeds were full of news articles. They pivoted very sharply and suddenly away from that, which hurt publis…

> You don't think writers see and care about how many clicks or views their articles get? I think they care, but even so, they would write about FaceBook because it gets clicks, not because the org is mad at Facebook. The Times being mad at Facebook isn't what makes people click on the articles. It's people being mad at Facebook that gets them to click. There is no one in the chain of approval for content that would…

> they would write about FaceBook because it gets clicks

Well I don't disagree with that.

> The Times being mad at Facebook

You're trying very hard to separate the corporation from the people. There's plenty of evidence that the journalists themselves are mad at Facebook. As another commenter notes, it's not hard to find podcasts with them complaining about the rise of FB.

There's another reason for journalists to be mad at FB: it's goal is to give everyone a voice. If everyone gets to publish their opinion, and not just people who work for big companies, that makes journalists a lot less important in society.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#136

Post by imgabe »

leroy_masochist wrote: post #23

Allowing 19-year-old kids to have their name and photo published in the newspaper of record in an article that quotes their snarky comments about how they're not sure if they'd deign to work for any given company is journalistic malpractice. I don't blame the kids. They're young and naturally earnest, and are marinating in an environment where performative wokeness results in positive social reinforcement. They don't…

These kids are computer science students from Berkeley. They're not going to be hurting for job offers. If it helps filter out dumbass employers who are going to hold their opinions about Facebook against them, so much the better.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#137

Post by jedberg »

mawburn wrote: post #130
jedberg wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say Netflix has a pretty good external reputation. They do good by their customers and don't sell them out. They take your money and show your videos and don't share your data. They have hits and misses on their original content, but they don't actually make that stuff, they just compete with all the other big entertainment outlets to distribute what production companies make. There is of course strong opinions a…

And yet, even Netflix has a famous history of having a firing culture. Which from the outside looking in, seems toxic and incredibly unethical. https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-10-26/netfli...

That's the internal reputation, not external. And as I said, many of us liked that culture. I liked that fact that I didn't have to deal with people who were clearly there just to collect a paycheck. Those folks didn't last long. Like I said, you had to take control of your own destiny with little guidance. If you like that kind of thing, Netflix is a great place.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#138

Post by marssaxman »

Animats wrote: post #49

...the head of the start-up incubator and investment firm, Y Combinator, gave opening remarks, recommending that young people avoid jobs in big tech. “You get to program your life on a totally different scale.... The worst thing that can happen to you is you get a job at Google.” He called those jobs “$100,000 a year welfare” — meaning, he said, that workers can get tethered to the paycheck and avoid taking risks. Wh…

Same reason you'd work for any startup - because startups are fun and interesting? You get a level of autonomy you can never have at an established company, with freedom to experiment and work creatively.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#139

Post by bluntfang »

raarts wrote: post #95
mattmar96 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Equity

If that's your goal, start your own company.

The best way to learn how to start your own company is to join an early stage where they give you lots of responsibility and ownership. The closer you are to the founders the easier it is to learn from their mistakes.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#140

Post by Apocryphon »

jedberg wrote: post #131
Apocryphon wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Netflix does as a company to consumers, though among workers their cutthroat culture has been infamous even before the recent NYT profile, though so is their high compensation. I don’t agree with lumping them in with the tech giants though. Why them and not Tesla, Uber, AirBnB, Dropbox, etc.?

He said "top 50" and by most measures Netflix would be "top 50". That's why I chose it (plus familiarity with it personally). All those other ones you mentioned could be "top 50" as well. In which case, I think the general feeling of external perception is negative for all of them except Dropbox. Op asked "I have to wonder how many of the top 50 or so tech companies have really sterling reputations for warm-hearted g…

I’m not so much disagreeing with you or him as I am with the dumb “FAANG” acronym.

Though I think AirBnB has a reputation for being a good work environment and a consumer product, whatever externalities they inflict upon society.

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