‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students • Hacker News Board

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#71

Post by icedchai » Thu, Nov 15, 2018, 9:10 PM UTC

hacknat wrote: post #45

icedchai wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're probably not smart enough to get in, anyway. If they were, they'd go to FB, milk that huge salary, unload their RSU's on a regular basis, save and invest, and FIRE by age 35. Signed, a CS graduate and FB stock holder with 500% return.

Is it possible that someone smarter than you doesn’t want to work at Facebook? There are plenty of reasons, beyond ideological ones, not to want to work there. I don’t think I have any ideological objections to Facebook, but the product itself doesn’t interest me and I’m not a user.

I don't work at Facebook... I'm probably not smart enough, to be honest, and also don't have much interest in the product either. I just bought their stock after the IPO.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#72

Post by techelitism » Thu, Nov 15, 2018, 9:10 PM UTC

Few comments on this because I think about this quite a bit.

1) I always read these articles and sigh. Seems like they only focus on 2 elite tech companies at the expense of all the others while only interviewing students at the #1 CS school in the country. I feel like a 2nd class citizen in the industry because of it. When will the normal people be heard?

2) I'm kind of surprised they listed a $140k starting pay. That's pretty low for new grads in the industry and very low for Facebook.

3) I think it requires an immense amount of privilege to say no to a company for relatively trivial reasons (you're probably not going to be working on product code if you don't want to) that pays as much as Facebook does, especially given the $75k signing bonus on the table for interns. I think any discussion about this on the student level has to start with this. Any comparison to the defense industry is silly because defense pays significantly less than big tech.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#73

Post by jfk13 » Thu, Nov 15, 2018, 9:10 PM UTC

hacknat wrote: post #50

skdd8 wrote: post #25

While I trust FB has very good work perks. I will not be inclined to work there. It comes down to what do you value in life. Do you wanna literally help promote fascism and misinformation? Go work at FB and moonshine at Monsanto on your free time.

Moonshine? Do you mean moonlight? ;)

Not sure I'd want to try moonshine from Monsanto...

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#74

Post by glibgil » Thu, Nov 15, 2018, 9:10 PM UTC

bradenb wrote: post #53

ralusek wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very similar to when you hear people say "I love my job but they don't pay a living wage!" It's because you love your job, you have to pay for that.

> It's because you love your job, you have to pay for that. I don't buy that. I don't think enjoying your job and being paid well need to be mutually exclusive. I think it's in an employer's best interest that their employees enjoy their job. Part of that is that an employee has to not feel the stress of being underpaid or overworked.

> I don't think enjoying your job and being paid well need to be mutually exclusive

If there is a job, say museum docent, that the majority of qualified people would love to do then the salary of that job will approach $0. Museum docents are usually volunteers, but the chance for an art history major to practice their craft is valuable to the worker even at $0

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#75

Post by Kadin » Thu, Nov 15, 2018, 9:11 PM UTC

leesalminen wrote: post #15

yaacov wrote: post #9

> Ms. Brown said a lot of students criticize Facebook and talk about how they would not work there, but ultimately join. “Everyone cares about ethics in tech before they get a contract,” she said. This describes my what I've observed perfectly. There are very few companies that make new grad offers comparable to Facebook's, and career advancement opportunities and working conditions at Facebook tend to be better than…

I could see debt-laden recent grads compromising their ethics to work at FB. I don't see myself (not debt-laden, have a great job) compromising mine just to work for them. What's the long term effect of that trend? Will FB be chock full of juniors with an ever depleting number of seniors?

> Will FB be chock full of juniors with an ever depleting number of seniors?

Doubtless some of those junior devs will be willing to stick around. In for a penny, in for a pound — very few people want to suddenly take a pay cut; your lifestyle has a way of keeping you hooked on a paycheck of a certain amount, once you get used to it.

And assuming the organization follows a standard "pyramid" model, you don't need that many people to stick around to give a good balance of junior to senior people, and have opportunities for promotion for high-performing/interested junior folks. Lots of companies have to create that attrition artificially; if they get it naturally as a result of people parting ways when their school loans are paid, it's probably solving a problem for them.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#76

Post by techelitism » Thu, Nov 15, 2018, 9:11 PM UTC

hacknat wrote: post #45

icedchai wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're probably not smart enough to get in, anyway. If they were, they'd go to FB, milk that huge salary, unload their RSU's on a regular basis, save and invest, and FIRE by age 35. Signed, a CS graduate and FB stock holder with 500% return.

Is it possible that someone smarter than you doesn’t want to work at Facebook? There are plenty of reasons, beyond ideological ones, not to want to work there. I don’t think I have any ideological objections to Facebook, but the product itself doesn’t interest me and I’m not a user.

>Is it possible that someone smarter than you doesn’t want to work at Facebook?

It's definitely possible, but they'd probably be working at another top tech company or finance company (think Citadel, Google, Jane Street) or starting their own company instead.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#77

Post by mattmar96 » Thu, Nov 15, 2018, 9:12 PM UTC

Animats wrote: post #49

...the head of the start-up incubator and investment firm, Y Combinator, gave opening remarks, recommending that young people avoid jobs in big tech. “You get to program your life on a totally different scale.... The worst thing that can happen to you is you get a job at Google.” He called those jobs “$100,000 a year welfare” — meaning, he said, that workers can get tethered to the paycheck and avoid taking risks. Wh…

Equity

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#78

Post by Agathos » Thu, Nov 15, 2018, 9:12 PM UTC

leroy_masochist wrote: post #23

Allowing 19-year-old kids to have their name and photo published in the newspaper of record in an article that quotes their snarky comments about how they're not sure if they'd deign to work for any given company is journalistic malpractice. I don't blame the kids. They're young and naturally earnest, and are marinating in an environment where performative wokeness results in positive social reinforcement. They don't…

Is it "wokeness" or just ambition? When I was 19 I didn't know what I wanted to do, but I'm pretty sure being yet another cog in a 30,000-employee machine was not high on the list.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#79

Post by leroy_masochist » Thu, Nov 15, 2018, 9:12 PM UTC

ggggtez wrote: post #64

leroy_masochist wrote: post #23

Allowing 19-year-old kids to have their name and photo published in the newspaper of record in an article that quotes their snarky comments about how they're not sure if they'd deign to work for any given company is journalistic malpractice. I don't blame the kids. They're young and naturally earnest, and are marinating in an environment where performative wokeness results in positive social reinforcement. They don't…

Oh please. "19-year-old kids" can sign their life away to the military. They can vote in elections. To suggest that we shouldn't allow people who are adults by every meaning of the word, voice their opinions publicly and attributed to themselves is ludicrous.

It's not an issue of human rights but rather of journalistic ethics. See my other comments on this thread.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#80

Post by dionidium » Thu, Nov 15, 2018, 9:12 PM UTC

leroy_masochist wrote: post #23

Allowing 19-year-old kids to have their name and photo published in the newspaper of record in an article that quotes their snarky comments about how they're not sure if they'd deign to work for any given company is journalistic malpractice. I don't blame the kids. They're young and naturally earnest, and are marinating in an environment where performative wokeness results in positive social reinforcement. They don't…

The only people to blame here are hiring managers who think the snarky comments you made when you were 19 are in any way relevant or representative.

Why would an employer ever even see this unless their hiring practices are so broken that they think it's a good idea to go looking for this kind of thing in the first place? And if that's the case, then, sheesh, I don't even know what to say. That's so silly that it's not even wrong.