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‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

nytimes.com

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Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#21

Post by mehrdadn »

FilterSweep wrote: post #18
yaacov wrote: post #9

> Ms. Brown said a lot of students criticize Facebook and talk about how they would not work there, but ultimately join. “Everyone cares about ethics in tech before they get a contract,” she said. This describes my what I've observed perfectly. There are very few companies that make new grad offers comparable to Facebook's, and career advancement opportunities and working conditions at Facebook tend to be better than…

And I don’t blame them. Developers are largely undercompensated for the utility they provide for firms, both across companies and within (compared to other roles). In the Bay, it’s the difference between living comfortably+saving for their future and just making ends meet. It’s a bit like blaming the scientists of the Manhattan Project for dropping the atomic bomb.

> It’s a bit like blaming the scientists of the Manhattan Project for dropping the atomic bomb.

I'm the last one to defend Facebook here but I don't see how designing an atomic bomb is comparable to working for Facebook, regardless of what you think about the morality of each.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#23

Post by leroy_masochist »

Allowing 19-year-old kids to have their name and photo published in the newspaper of record in an article that quotes their snarky comments about how they're not sure if they'd deign to work for any given company is journalistic malpractice.

I don't blame the kids. They're young and naturally earnest, and are marinating in an environment where performative wokeness results in positive social reinforcement. They don't know any better.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#24

Post by save_ferris »

leesalminen wrote: post #15
yaacov wrote: post #9

> Ms. Brown said a lot of students criticize Facebook and talk about how they would not work there, but ultimately join. “Everyone cares about ethics in tech before they get a contract,” she said. This describes my what I've observed perfectly. There are very few companies that make new grad offers comparable to Facebook's, and career advancement opportunities and working conditions at Facebook tend to be better than…

I could see debt-laden recent grads compromising their ethics to work at FB. I don't see myself (not debt-laden, have a great job) compromising mine just to work for them. What's the long term effect of that trend? Will FB be chock full of juniors with an ever depleting number of seniors?

> Will FB be chock full of juniors with an ever depleting number of seniors?

Only if everyone that has an opportunity to work there shares your moral compass. This industry is really good at marketing, and not just to customers but employees too.

I mean, look at how popular facebook still is among the public even after all of these scandals. There doesn't appear to be any serious attempt by the shareholders to demand change, and Zuck always seems to escape responsibility. I don't remember the exact number, but someone posted data on HN showing that a high percentage of current employees at FB (far more than 50%) see the company as still providing a net positive impact on the world.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#25

Post by skdd8 »

While I trust FB has very good work perks. I will not be inclined to work there.

It comes down to what do you value in life.

Do you wanna literally help promote fascism and misinformation? Go work at FB and moonshine at Monsanto on your free time.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#26

Post by johan_larson »

I have to wonder how many of the top 50 or so tech companies have really sterling reputations for warm-hearted goodness. Powerful organizations usually end up stepping on somebody's toes either in getting to the top or staying there.

And really, where else are you going to work if you are a developer and want to make money? One of the big banks? Plenty of dirt there. A defence contractor? Ditto.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#27

Post by Jonanin »

I have concerns about Facebook just like everyone else, but I'd also like to point out that the New York Times is not repeatedly publishing articles criticizing FB simply because of their superior moral stance. They are doing it because FB took away a lot of revenue from publishers like them, and they are very, very angry about it.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#28

Post by gpm »

yaacov wrote: post #9

> Ms. Brown said a lot of students criticize Facebook and talk about how they would not work there, but ultimately join. “Everyone cares about ethics in tech before they get a contract,” she said. This describes my what I've observed perfectly. There are very few companies that make new grad offers comparable to Facebook's, and career advancement opportunities and working conditions at Facebook tend to be better than…

My theory is that pay and working conditions at Facebook are as good as they are precisely because of people feeling like this. They are having to pay a premium to attract engineers as a result of the moral opposition.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#29

Post by nradov »

leroy_masochist wrote: post #23

Allowing 19-year-old kids to have their name and photo published in the newspaper of record in an article that quotes their snarky comments about how they're not sure if they'd deign to work for any given company is journalistic malpractice. I don't blame the kids. They're young and naturally earnest, and are marinating in an environment where performative wokeness results in positive social reinforcement. They don't…

What should the age limit be for publishing snarky comments?

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#30

Post by ralusek »

gpm wrote: post #28
yaacov wrote: post #9

> Ms. Brown said a lot of students criticize Facebook and talk about how they would not work there, but ultimately join. “Everyone cares about ethics in tech before they get a contract,” she said. This describes my what I've observed perfectly. There are very few companies that make new grad offers comparable to Facebook's, and career advancement opportunities and working conditions at Facebook tend to be better than…

My theory is that pay and working conditions at Facebook are as good as they are precisely because of people feeling like this. They are having to pay a premium to attract engineers as a result of the moral opposition.

It's very similar to when you hear people say "I love my job but they don't pay a living wage!"

It's because you love your job, you have to pay for that.

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