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‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

nytimes.com

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Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#151

Post by tombert »

deanmoriarty wrote: post #133
eksemplar wrote: post #117

I get that we don’t like Facebook, but isn’t this a bit much? Are they worse than google or amazon? What about people who work for Coca-Cola? What about the people who make mobile games and loot boxes for Blizzard? Where is it ethical to work? I mean, I’ve been in public service for decades, so I know a thing or two about choosing idealism over money, but that’s not for everyone and I frankly don’t think Facebook is…

From my experience, most of this negativity just appears on HN or on channels who have some strong bias (usually business related) against Facebook. All my acquaintances working in tech, which includes people from very wide sociodemographics ranges, consider Facebook an absolutely prestigious employer, with top talent, top challenges, top compensation and top name for building a personal brand. Hell, I interviewed at…

Clearly it can't be that prestigious since they declined me :).

But seriously, while they probably are prestigious and cool right now, I do feel that there's enough hostility towards FB in the hacker community (and thus their supply of employees) that it might start forcing them to hire average-at-best engineers.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#152

Post by htor »

eksemplar wrote: post #117

I get that we don’t like Facebook, but isn’t this a bit much? Are they worse than google or amazon? What about people who work for Coca-Cola? What about the people who make mobile games and loot boxes for Blizzard? Where is it ethical to work? I mean, I’ve been in public service for decades, so I know a thing or two about choosing idealism over money, but that’s not for everyone and I frankly don’t think Facebook is…

there are so many ethical things you can use your brain on. first of all, you can start by not investing your talent/intelligence on advertisement. everybody knows ads are bad and they make making people suffer in many ways. we know so well that facebook, google et.al have no good intentions for the planet and are harvesting massive profits. ultra capitalist, maybe? we have many choices as humans, we can choose to organize, work for honest people and take a big shit on evil companies destroying our environment!

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#153

Post by Karrot_Kream »

eksemplar wrote: post #117

I get that we don’t like Facebook, but isn’t this a bit much? Are they worse than google or amazon? What about people who work for Coca-Cola? What about the people who make mobile games and loot boxes for Blizzard? Where is it ethical to work? I mean, I’ve been in public service for decades, so I know a thing or two about choosing idealism over money, but that’s not for everyone and I frankly don’t think Facebook is…

> Are they worse than google or amazon? What about people who work for Coca-Cola? What about the people who make mobile games and loot boxes for Blizzard?

The recent Times article indicates that they are dirtier than Google and Apple, so yes.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#154

Post by zandl »

eksemplar wrote: post #117

I get that we don’t like Facebook, but isn’t this a bit much? Are they worse than google or amazon? What about people who work for Coca-Cola? What about the people who make mobile games and loot boxes for Blizzard? Where is it ethical to work? I mean, I’ve been in public service for decades, so I know a thing or two about choosing idealism over money, but that’s not for everyone and I frankly don’t think Facebook is…

If you can link the fall of democracy to misinformation being spread on their platform, genocide and mob murders, yes I’d say not all tech companies are that bad.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#155

Post by PascLeRasc »

icedchai wrote: post #32
leroy_masochist wrote: post #23

Allowing 19-year-old kids to have their name and photo published in the newspaper of record in an article that quotes their snarky comments about how they're not sure if they'd deign to work for any given company is journalistic malpractice. I don't blame the kids. They're young and naturally earnest, and are marinating in an environment where performative wokeness results in positive social reinforcement. They don't…

They're probably not smart enough to get in, anyway. If they were, they'd go to FB, milk that huge salary, unload their RSU's on a regular basis, save and invest, and FIRE by age 35. Signed, a CS graduate and FB stock holder with 500% return.

What do you think you'll be remembered for after you pass?

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#156

Post by estsauver »

yaacov wrote: post #9

> Ms. Brown said a lot of students criticize Facebook and talk about how they would not work there, but ultimately join. “Everyone cares about ethics in tech before they get a contract,” she said. This describes my what I've observed perfectly. There are very few companies that make new grad offers comparable to Facebook's, and career advancement opportunities and working conditions at Facebook tend to be better than…

There are a lot of people who interview at the big tech companies + a couple small impact oriented startups, but it's very rare for them to take the small impact oriented startups offer. It's hard to turn down 250k a year.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#157

Post by elicash »

SCHiM wrote: post #91
wesleytodd wrote: post #46

Personal anecdote: I was contacted by a facebook recruiter a few years ago. I started the process and also started thinking about if I would like working there. I realized that I disagree strongly with the product, its effects on society, culture and politics. But more importantly I realized I hadn't used the product in like 3 years. I just said no thanks before even finishing the "take home" exercise. At the time I…

That's a weird thing to say about oneself. Do you really consider yourself to be "less ethical" or have you internalized "mainstream" ethics as "good", and found that that's not what _you_ think is ethical/good behavior?

I took it as OP being modest and not wanting to sound holier-than-thou.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#158

Post by sailingparrot »

eksemplar wrote: post #117

I get that we don’t like Facebook, but isn’t this a bit much? Are they worse than google or amazon? What about people who work for Coca-Cola? What about the people who make mobile games and loot boxes for Blizzard? Where is it ethical to work? I mean, I’ve been in public service for decades, so I know a thing or two about choosing idealism over money, but that’s not for everyone and I frankly don’t think Facebook is…

The point is that these peoples in the article have leverage. Companies are competing for them not the other way around, so it's natural for them to consider ethics because it will not affect their standard of living.

If I have the choice between working for Palantir or Facebook, I choose Facebook. If have to choose to between Facebook and Apple I choose Apple. Whatever I choose I will still live extremely comfortably. And yes not all those companies have an equally bad impact on society.

In both of your examples it's fair to say that you (or CS grads in Denmark) probably don't have that kind of leverage, because this is not the Silicon Valley. If you have to choose between working for FB at 150k$/year or public service for a third of that, then yes, choosing ethics has a big negative impacts on your life and it's hard to blame anyone for choosing FB.

They don't have this problem.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#159

Post by nradov »

steelframe wrote: post #61
nradov wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What should the age limit be for publishing snarky comments?

The same age that rental car companies have converged on for "enough" judgement to have developed. Personally, I was ridiculously vulnerable to influence by social groups between the ages of 16 and 25. So much so, that I impulsively joined the Mormon church and threw two years away trying to convert other people to Mormonism. I also wrote an anti-Microsoft rant in a newspaper editorial, since I was so caught up in th…

How sad for you. My judgment at age 18 was perfectly fine, thanks.

By point of comparison, at age 23 Horatio Nelson was the captain of a warship and responsible for leading hundreds of men in combat. Nowadays we're way too tolerant of young people who refuse to grow up and accept the consequences of their actions.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#160

Post by ocschwar »

bradenb wrote: post #53
ralusek wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very similar to when you hear people say "I love my job but they don't pay a living wage!" It's because you love your job, you have to pay for that.

> It's because you love your job, you have to pay for that. I don't buy that. I don't think enjoying your job and being paid well need to be mutually exclusive. I think it's in an employer's best interest that their employees enjoy their job. Part of that is that an employee has to not feel the stress of being underpaid or overworked.

They're not mutually exclusive, but they are negatively correlated.

The more enjoyable a job is, the lower the salary the boss can offer before people balk at taking it. It isn't something you can suss out in individual cases, but statistically speaking it holds up.

When I sysadminned in the turn of the millenium, I could definitely see the pay gap between running systems for corporate America and doing it for scientists in academia.

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