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Germany plans €3B in AI investments

reuters.com

71–80 of 161 posts

Re: Germany plans €3B in AI investments

#71
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A typical Berlin startup: - hires devs with extremely low salaries - gives 0.004% equity at best - is run by people that are "better than anybody else" - expects constant overtime and 24/7 employee reachability - has managers with issues saying "thank you" - hires friends/family to higher echelons of company Does this sound like a recipe for success?

That sounds like a degenerate organisation. But if we're sharing anecdata: My pay in this Berlin startup is very decent, I have respectable equity and it's a friendly & rational environment. I'm scared of US startup work culture, rather.

I remember one Deep Learning startup in Berlin ran by ex-Googlers that was offering 85k salary, minuscule equity, and expected a Stanford top-graduate with interview that had to demonstrate complete mastery of all Stanford Deep Learning courses and probabilistic graphical models... I hope it's not your employer, you are likely undervaluing yourself 10x otherwise.

Re: Germany plans €3B in AI investments

#72
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Germmany like most other European countries doesn't really have any local FAANG like companies and you can see than in the job market. Most dev salaries at local companies are garbage compared to what FAANG companies pay in their EU offices.

News for you: FAANG companies pay garbage salaries in their EU offices (Switzerland is not EU). Source: glassdoor.com

L5 SWE in London is ~US$200k total comp. No, not quite as much as SF, but that's still insane money outside of finance.

Re: Germany plans €3B in AI investments

#73
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German automakers and other heavy industry makes some world-class products and are politically connected up the yin yang

I was talking specifically about SW industry. It's actually an issue that plenty of people think the same approaches that made Germany great in automotive could be applied to software as well...

OK, if you're specifically talking about software. Software has certainly not been Germany's forte... But there's more to the world than software - and those industries will also bake AI into whatever they're making.

Re: Germany plans €3B in AI investments

#74
post #70
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A typical Berlin startup: - hires devs with extremely low salaries - gives 0.004% equity at best - is run by people that are "better than anybody else" - expects constant overtime and 24/7 employee reachability - has managers with issues saying "thank you" - hires friends/family to higher echelons of company Does this sound like a recipe for success?

While that's a accurate generalization of Berlin startups, from what I can tell it's pretty much the same for startups anywhere (maybe with the exception of salary in contrast to SF, but the cost of living is absurd in comparision).

It's different if you have a shot at being rich in the Bay Area via a successful exit as an early employee, or if you, as in case of Berlin, get a laughable equity and instead are motivated by the "coolness" of startups and Berlin being a city for "hipsters", trading your peak effort/prime years for literally nothing. Of course, start up is a lottery in SF as well, but the potential wins are orders of magnitude higher than e.g. an amount of one-time mid-tier car purchase like it is with German startups.

Re: Germany plans €3B in AI investments

#75
post #32
post #25

The problem is not a lack of funds. The problem is bureaucracy and a lack of startup infrastructure. My feeling is that the people in charge have absolutely no effing clue about how to most efficiently deploy this money so they will do what sounds good on paper but will have 0 effect in reality. If it goes how it usually goes the largest part of this money will likely to to universities and other research institution…

A typical Berlin startup: - hires devs with extremely low salaries - gives 0.004% equity at best - is run by people that are "better than anybody else" - expects constant overtime and 24/7 employee reachability - has managers with issues saying "thank you" - hires friends/family to higher echelons of company Does this sound like a recipe for success?

That's the way it is in all European countries.

Re: Germany plans €3B in AI investments

#76
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was talking specifically about SW industry. It's actually an issue that plenty of people think the same approaches that made Germany great in automotive could be applied to software as well...

OK, if you're specifically talking about software. Software has certainly not been Germany's forte... But there's more to the world than software - and those industries will also bake AI into whatever they're making.

Most of the automotive research in AI by German automakers is done in their Silicon Valley research centers. Most of the low-level work to produce cars is done in V4 countries. The rest is done in Germany.

Re: Germany plans €3B in AI investments

#77
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unpaid overtime definitely conflicts with labour law. There is also a maximum amount of hours you are technically allowed to work on a day, which is ten. Sixty hours also is the absolute weekly maximum with 48 hours being the regular maximum. However, if you do not report these hours no one will ever know.

> Unpaid overtime definitely conflicts with labour law. I can't find any evidence that it does. It seems to be common practice: https://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/topic/342740-unpaid-ove... If you receive a salary, you don't get paid by the hour. If your contract says you don't have a right for compensation (monetary or otherwise) for extra hours, then you don't. Negotiating such terms is up to the employee (or the…

https://workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/45108/is-overt...

I think this is a good summary of the law in practice. Any overtime has to be compensated by the employer. Obviously, there are ways people work around it if the employee is fine with it...

However, if you go to court about unpaid overtime you are sure to win. This has obviously implications on your hireability though. On paper you are protected.

Re: Germany plans €3B in AI investments

#79
post #32
post #25

The problem is not a lack of funds. The problem is bureaucracy and a lack of startup infrastructure. My feeling is that the people in charge have absolutely no effing clue about how to most efficiently deploy this money so they will do what sounds good on paper but will have 0 effect in reality. If it goes how it usually goes the largest part of this money will likely to to universities and other research institution…

A typical Berlin startup: - hires devs with extremely low salaries - gives 0.004% equity at best - is run by people that are "better than anybody else" - expects constant overtime and 24/7 employee reachability - has managers with issues saying "thank you" - hires friends/family to higher echelons of company Does this sound like a recipe for success?

Sorry but why Berlin? Munich has several very successful startups and excellent engineering community with serious investors and companies who can be either clients or potential purchasers of these startups. Why do you chose Berlin as a representative of German startup scene? I know they had some success but there is so much more in Germany.

goo.gl/uPLVMy

https://www.eu-startups.com/tag/munich/

Re: Germany plans €3B in AI investments

#80
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unpaid overtime definitely conflicts with labour law. There is also a maximum amount of hours you are technically allowed to work on a day, which is ten. Sixty hours also is the absolute weekly maximum with 48 hours being the regular maximum. However, if you do not report these hours no one will ever know.

> Unpaid overtime definitely conflicts with labour law. I can't find any evidence that it does. It seems to be common practice: https://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/topic/342740-unpaid-ove... If you receive a salary, you don't get paid by the hour. If your contract says you don't have a right for compensation (monetary or otherwise) for extra hours, then you don't. Negotiating such terms is up to the employee (or the…

Use German resources if you want to learn about Germany. This is no offense but it's an annoying fact.

https://www.arbeitsrecht.org/arbeitnehmer/arbeitszeit/so-lan...

Tldr; employees and employers have to make sure that no-one oversteps the 10 hour maximum.

Basically I could get fired if I do, because my employer could get into trouble.

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