Long-Awaited Study Results on Vitamin D and Fish Oil Supplements • Hacker News Board

Re: Long-Awaited Study Results on Vitamin D and Fish Oil Supplements

#231

Post by zamber » Mon, Nov 12, 2018, 8:46 AM UTC

akvadrako wrote: post #178

jessaustin wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real tuna is delicious. Canned tuna is worse than pet food. (perhaps this explains the slip in your last sentence?) We probably shouldn't be eating tuna at all, for environmental reasons. GP's point that there are lots of non-apex-predator fish in both fresh and salt water still holds.

What's wrong with pet food?

Depends on the price range and quality but in general it's highly processed, designed to addict, pumped with grains as filler/fiber.

Dry feed is linked to kidney failure in cars and small dogs.

Veterinarian food is marginally better but it still isn't comparable to a close-to-natural diet. Pretty much the same business model used by toothpaste brands sold by dentists (piggy-backing on profession trust).

There are higher quality cans and options like BARF which cost a bit more but are far better (and tastier) for pets. It can also be done at home at a lower cost but it's pretty messy. Time-wise takes around 8 man-hours per month for us (recepie calculation, getting supplements, grinding and cutting meat, getting it all together and packaging).

We've been feeding our cats with it for over 2y now. Their blood tests are far better and there's a visible increase in fur quality. Partner is a vet tech and has easy access to the clinic to checkup on our pets. She also daily sees effects of cheap dry stuff on patients.

Re: Long-Awaited Study Results on Vitamin D and Fish Oil Supplements

#232

Post by 113 » Mon, Nov 12, 2018, 9:57 AM UTC

raspasov wrote: post #111

Sooooooo... I did a little bit of digging here. 3 studies: ------------------- 1st study about Vitamin D https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01169259 2nd study about fish oil with a low dose, 1 gram https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01169259 3rd study about a PROPRIETARY PRESCRIPTION variation of fish oil with a HIGH DOSE https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/record/NCT01492361 Results: --------------------- 1s…

It always surprises me the amount of woo commenters here are willing to swallow.

Re: Long-Awaited Study Results on Vitamin D and Fish Oil Supplements

#233

Post by p0nce » Mon, Nov 12, 2018, 10:26 AM UTC

c0nducktr wrote: post #209

p0nce wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hello, I didn't noticed a lot of changes with 2000 IU but at 5000 IU the effect on mood is dramatic and quite noticeable. Being liposoluble the effect has quite a latency over several days. It's basically the "summer vacation" feeling. (Be carefult to take pure D3 not something mixed with calcium though: effective dosage of vit D. would bring into calcium overdosage.)

I've noticed my mood improves at higher Vitamin D dosages as well. I've currently been taking Solaray brand Vitamin D3+K2, which is 5000IU D-3, 50mcg K-2, 110mg Calcium, 84mg Phosphorus. Since this contains calcium, is it harmful to take everyday? Should I try to find a different supplement?

No comment was about supplements that are 500IU + 110mg Calcium. If you 10x this does you will have too much calcium.

Vitamin D supplements can sometimes be underdosed.

Re: Long-Awaited Study Results on Vitamin D and Fish Oil Supplements

#234

Post by arcturus17 » Mon, Nov 12, 2018, 10:32 AM UTC

cies wrote: post #229

arcturus17 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> High meat cultures never produced the longest living people. This is a lie. Spain has the fourth longest living country in the world according to the WHO, and ranks 11th in the world in meat consumption at 97 kg per person according to the FAO. Australia, tied at 4th with Spain in life expectancy, consumes a whooping 111 kg per person, 3rd in the world. Japan and Iceland, first and fifth in life expectancy, consume…

That, as you said, of the developed nations Japan is the first (they eat fish rather than meat). Also in Japan you can find the longest living people, Okinawa, and they barely eat meat (traditionally). A food culture is not defined by national borders: we have to look inside the countries to see what culture work for longevity. See the bluezones book. Then I must say that I said something wrong: "longest living" alon…

> they [Japan] eat fish rather than meat

You were specifically arguing against eating tuna. So a plant AND fish based diet might be best after all? Regardless, Spain and Australia trail very closely to Japan, and they are huge meat eaters.

> "longest living" alone is not enough, we want to be healthy too

You seem to be subtly implying now that these long-living countries might have serious public health issues. Again incorrect - according to Bloomberg, Australia, Italy or Spain are in the top-10 healthiest countries in the world, which includes measures other than longevity.

> Being sick for the last 30 years of my life

Well, I am sorry you had to endure that, but I hope you understand that your health and that of the public might not be related at all.

Re: Long-Awaited Study Results on Vitamin D and Fish Oil Supplements

#235

Post by ekianjo » Mon, Nov 12, 2018, 10:48 AM UTC

loeg wrote: post #204

ekianjo wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a case of misleading headline. The study endpoints were not met. It is negative.

In the article, there are 6 paragraphs on the recent negative study results, followed by 15 paragraphs suggesting possible benefits either out of scope of the two recent studies, or potential future avenues of research. NPR's title is certainly accurate for the portion on the two studies, but ~3/4 of the text is not about the negative study results. So, while it's not the most misleading headline ever to grace the or…

Look, its pretty clear the study did not meet any of the expectations set before it started. Disapointing is totally appropriate. No need to be overly optimistic about every failure out there by cherry picking a few avenues for further research.

Re: Long-Awaited Study Results on Vitamin D and Fish Oil Supplements

#236

Post by cies » Mon, Nov 12, 2018, 10:57 AM UTC

arcturus17 wrote: post #234

cies wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That, as you said, of the developed nations Japan is the first (they eat fish rather than meat). Also in Japan you can find the longest living people, Okinawa, and they barely eat meat (traditionally). A food culture is not defined by national borders: we have to look inside the countries to see what culture work for longevity. See the bluezones book. Then I must say that I said something wrong: "longest living" alon…

> they [Japan] eat fish rather than meat You were specifically arguing against eating tuna. So a plant AND fish based diet might be best after all? Regardless, Spain and Australia trail very closely to Japan, and they are huge meat eaters. > "longest living" alone is not enough, we want to be healthy too You seem to be subtly implying now that these long-living countries might have serious public health issues. Again…

I argue against tuna for the mercury (not for the Omega 3; but I suggest to get that from algae extract).

I argue against beef for fat/ cholesterol/ animal protein (not for the iron, but get that from e.g. pommegranades)

> according to Bloomberg

I prefer the method of the BlueZones book (until I can read teh details of the Bloomberg study methods)

> Well, I am sorry you had to endure that

I expect not to endure that. As I do not consume the high-processed, high animal product diet so common in the west.

Evidence based nutrition :) That's my game. Meat causes colon cancer. The ideal consumed cholesterol amount is zero (yes a lot of short term studies like to show otherwise).

Re: Long-Awaited Study Results on Vitamin D and Fish Oil Supplements

#237

Post by agsdfgsd » Mon, Nov 12, 2018, 11:52 AM UTC

majkinetor wrote: post #226

agsdfgsd wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is low dose aspirin bad for the average person? It is an anti-inflammatory, and inflammation is a leading theory of potential disease causation for a number of diseases. Daily low dose aspirin is associated with a significantly lower all-cause mortality in average people.

Aspirin has detrimental effects on stomach, thats how. Ibuprofen was created because of that. Think 1 teaspoon of blood per day that you bleed from stomach. Vitamin C can prevent some of that but it still exists.

It has such effects only in a small portion of people, and only in high doses. That is not a reason for average people to avoid a daily low dose, which has a direct reduction in all cause mortality.

Re: Long-Awaited Study Results on Vitamin D and Fish Oil Supplements

#238

Post by agsdfgsd » Mon, Nov 12, 2018, 12:28 PM UTC

lustysocietyorg wrote: post #228

agsdfgsd wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Fish oil is not needed at all. The EPA and DHA in fish was initially produced by algae anyway People who lived in areas without fish also lived in areas without algae. >The 2 essential fatty acids are It is worth noting that there is basically no evidence that those 2 fatty acids are actually essential. A single study done in the 1930s is the basis for that belief. A study in which rats fed no fat got symptoms we no…

> People who lived in areas without fish also lived in areas without algae. The point is that EPA and DHA is not made by fish. EPA and DHA can be bought in vegan form. EPA and DHA are not even considered as essential fatty acids. Unlike ALA and LA. I have not seen any study what shows that ALA and LA are not essential. If you have one, please link it. I would like to know. > And linseed oil consumption is correlated…

>The point is that EPA and DHA is not made by fish

But that point is not relevant to the post you replied to, which was wondering aloud about human adaptation to the availability of fish. The availability of algae is the same as the availability of fish.

>I have not seen any study what shows that ALA and LA are not essential.

Have you seen one that shows it is? Because there are none.

>Link please.

I can't find the original study, just people talking about it. They gave up on the original premise as the linseed oil was killing people instead of making them healthy, so they ended up reporting on smoking and blood pressure.

https://tidsskriftet.no/en/2012/01/life-expectancy-and-cause...

>But some truth is known in 2018.

But people with agendas lying on their blogs or youtube isn't truth. Pretending carnivores are omnivores and then saying "look we're not like omnivores" is just deliberate dishonesty. We are not like carnivores. We are, 100% without any question, omnivores. Read literally any text on mammology, there is no debate, no controversy, no ambiguity. Poor studies like the adventist study vegan advocates like to cite may show benefits when they don't control for anything else. But properly defined and conducted trials show veganism is not associated with lower mortality: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4691673/

Re: Long-Awaited Study Results on Vitamin D and Fish Oil Supplements

#239

Post by lustysocietyorg » Mon, Nov 12, 2018, 4:28 PM UTC

agsdfgsd wrote: post #238

lustysocietyorg wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People who lived in areas without fish also lived in areas without algae. The point is that EPA and DHA is not made by fish. EPA and DHA can be bought in vegan form. EPA and DHA are not even considered as essential fatty acids. Unlike ALA and LA. I have not seen any study what shows that ALA and LA are not essential. If you have one, please link it. I would like to know. > And linseed oil consumption is correlated…

>The point is that EPA and DHA is not made by fish But that point is not relevant to the post you replied to, which was wondering aloud about human adaptation to the availability of fish. The availability of algae is the same as the availability of fish. >I have not seen any study what shows that ALA and LA are not essential. Have you seen one that shows it is? Because there are none. >Link please. I can't find the o…

> But that point is not relevant to the post you replied to

Yes it is. Remember:

>>> So is it possible some people don't really need fish oil for well-being? Evolution might have rendered eating fish useless for these people.

> But people with agendas lying on their blogs or youtube isn't truth. Pretending carnivores are omnivores and then saying "look we're not like omnivores" is just deliberate dishonesty.

Yes we can it fresh meat and digest it. Even cows can digest milk and meat to some degree; remember the mad cow disease.

The human body works best with vegan food as main food or only vegan food in 2018 with modern vitamin supplements. This is a fact.

Regarding vitamin B12: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cavI_FnIrh4 and https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5TLzNi5fYd-Tyz9vI6Q2...

I am sure you have not watched the videos because otherwise your would reply differently.

Again, human physiology that you can not deny or call a lie:

https://livinontheveg.com/omnivore-or-herbivore/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXj76A9hI-o

By far most humans do not like and do not eat raw meat.

Most humans do not even like predigested meat in the form of cooked meat or grilled meat without further additions like salt and spices and other plant based food for the taste.

Re: Long-Awaited Study Results on Vitamin D and Fish Oil Supplements

#240

Post by agsdfgsd » Mon, Nov 12, 2018, 5:51 PM UTC

lustysocietyorg wrote: post #239

agsdfgsd wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The point is that EPA and DHA is not made by fish But that point is not relevant to the post you replied to, which was wondering aloud about human adaptation to the availability of fish. The availability of algae is the same as the availability of fish. >I have not seen any study what shows that ALA and LA are not essential. Have you seen one that shows it is? Because there are none. >Link please. I can't find the o…

> But that point is not relevant to the post you replied to Yes it is. Remember: >>> So is it possible some people don't really need fish oil for well-being? Evolution might have rendered eating fish useless for these people. > But people with agendas lying on their blogs or youtube isn't truth. Pretending carnivores are omnivores and then saying "look we're not like omnivores" is just deliberate dishonesty. Yes we c…

>Yes it is.

No it is not, read the context you intentionally cut out: "Quite a large population in the the world lives at place where fishes aren't available".

>The human body works best with vegan food as main food or only vegan food in 2018 with modern vitamin supplements

There is no evidence to support your assertion. The fact that vitamin supplements are required in order to avoid dying is incontrovertible evidence that humans are not herbivores. Our digestive tract, dentition, and enzyme production are those of an omnivore. We have absolutely no characteristics of herbivores.

>Even cows can digest milk and meat to some degree

All mammals can digest milk, that is why all mammals produce milk. That has nothing to do with your claim. Meat fed to cattle is pre-digested in order to allow them to get some energy value from it. They can not digest it normally.

>Again, human physiology that you can not deny or call a lie:

It is a bunch of lies and deliberate nonsense. Claws do not define diet, that is a completely irrelevant characteristic to focus on. Dogs are not omnivores they are carnivores. Our closest primate relatives are omnivores just like us, not herbivores. Notice how you keep referencing vegan activists spouting nonsense on blogs and videos? That is not evidence. There is a reason every biologist in the US has read this book rather than watch vegan youtube videos: https://www.amazon.ca/Mammalogy-Adaptation-Diversity-George-...

>Most humans do not even like predigested meat in the form of cooked meat or grilled meat without further additions like salt and spices and other plant based food for the taste.

And your basis for this claim is that the vast majority of the population of earth consumes meat all the time? If lots of people choose to add additional flavorings to something they eat, then that means it isn't part of their natural diet? By that definition, the natural diet of humans is absolutely nothing, not even water.