This article is just fear-mongering and speculation. No facts are given to support the title, and the proposed solutions to the problem (which is never established) are vague to the point of meaninglessness.
Skip the read.
Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia
41–50 of 628 posts
Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia
#42Last night, I stopped at an ATM on downtown Mountain View, to get some cash.
I have my debit card loaded in Apple Pay, for the sole purpose of making my ATM visit faster.
The ATM told me that my virtual card wasn’t acceptable to use to pull out cash; it advised me to use a debit card from my virtual wallet.
Except, that’s what I was using.
It was 8:30 PM, and I didn’t expect any prompt support from the bank. So, I used my physical debit card.
I consider both real and virtual cards to be conveniences, but they’re definitely not replacements.
Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia
#43> Swedish legislation makes it possible for retailers, restaurants and other companies to refuse to accept cash, for instance by putting up a sign at the entrance or by the till.
Yes. It started as a curiosity and now this signs are everywhere.
> By connecting a bank account in any bank with a mobile phone number, Swish has become a popular way to share a restaurant bill
Yes. And to gather money for a friend's birthday or anything else.
> Why Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia
I see the potential risks of this situation. But the article does not bother to bring an analysis of them.
One thing is already happening. The oldest part of the population have a hard time adapting to this situation. It's easier to take a bus and pay in cash than to have to buy an e-ticket in your phone.
I would prefer to see such analysis than this e-krona nonsense.
Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's how services work though, you can't really be self sufficient unless you're a hunter gatherer. And even then you still need to be strong enough to kill the other tribes who are contesting with you for land. Imagine going to Mars and the very air you breathe is owned by your government. For me that's not an argument against going to mars, that's an argument for working harder to build a stronger, more trustwort…
This is a false comparison. Physical cash, in your possession, cannot be frozen or revoked unless those entities stop accepting government fiat currency. It has nothing to do with being self-sufficient.
> Physical cash, in your possession, cannot be frozen or revoked unless those entities stop accepting government fiat currency.
Which is exactly what happened in Sweden, according to the article.
Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is a false comparison. Physical cash, in your possession, cannot be frozen or revoked unless those entities stop accepting government fiat currency. It has nothing to do with being self-sufficient.
But it can be stolen. Much more so than money in your bank account
And that's why the ideal is a choice between cash and electronic currency.
Sweden made cash (practically) illegal so now everyone has one less choice.
Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia
#46A society without cash is a society in which every person has no choice but to get the permission of someone they don’t know and will never meet each and every time they seek to obtain food, water, shelter, or transportation, and that permission can be revoked instantly, silently, and invisibly at any time.
You already live in a society where the food, water, and shelter you freely purchase has to be certified and authorized by faceless people you've never met and will never meet. Even your labor you are willing to give has to be certified at some level.
That's why you don't have to worry about salmonella in your chicken sandwich or a steel beam falling onto your head at work.
You're welcome.
Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
Untraceable anonymous transactions is the minimal requirement for it not to be harmful and dystopian.
I agree, but unfortunately I don't believe a society being run by humans would ever implement that. The leaders will not tolerate that kind of loss of control.
It has already been implemented (Bitcoin, Monero etc), and is improving gradually. The control freaks who would not like to tolerate it think they'll be able to tame it, but Bitcoin is like the Hydra - it gets stronger with every unsuccessful attack attempt. It's better for them to bury their heads in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist in order to not bring attention to it. When they eventually lift their heads out of the sand they'll find that the world has moved on without them.
Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia
#48headline is a bit overblown compared to the conclusion of the text. > no longer a utopia was it ever? who ever claimed it was a "utopia"? main points: - If cash stops working, it would leave all individuals to rely on the private sector alone to get access to money and payment methods. * One option is to do nothing, meaning we accept that the general public no longer has access to central bank money. * A second alter…
There's an alternative to relying on the private sector, which is for cash to be replaced with credit notes. The Irish bank strikes of the early 70s is a nice case study of this happening [1].
I've recently been thinking about a potential solution to the reliance on private institutions in a cashless society. I guess the problem with a "mobile chequebook" or something of the sort is that you are always to some extent dependent on a private service (e.g. phone signal provider).
[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_bank_strikes_(1966%E2%80...
Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia
#49Why does there need to be a separate government issued digital currency? Presumably all of the private accounts that people are currently using are measured in Kr already, and the banks already operate at fractional reserve so the actual paper doesn't exist. As an American, I make about one cash purchase a year, but that doesn't mean that I'm not spending US Dollars. It seems to me that calling digital money "e-krona…
> The development raises some crucial issues regarding the state’s role in the payment market. For hundreds of years, the public has been offered central bank notes and coins. If cash stops working, it would leave all individuals to rely on the private sector alone to get access to money and payment methods. This would be a historical change without precedence. Norway is seeing a similar trend, and the two central ba…
Private entities can be regulated to the same effect on the matter of access.
Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is a false comparison. Physical cash, in your possession, cannot be frozen or revoked unless those entities stop accepting government fiat currency. It has nothing to do with being self-sufficient.
But it can be stolen. Much more so than money in your bank account
At this point in time I'm at much higher risk of my electronic money being stolen than my cash, and if someone steals my cash I know about it instantly.
They can't skim my cash, can't MITM my cash transactions, they can't accept payment and then not deliver (more fraud than theft, but still) because the cash and the object being purchased are both right there.
So I think you are wrong.