Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

weforum.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 628 posts

Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

#11

Post by platz »

headline is a bit overblown compared to the conclusion of the text.

> no longer a utopia

was it ever? who ever claimed it was a "utopia"?

main points:

- If cash stops working, it would leave all individuals to rely on the private sector alone to get access to money and payment methods.

* One option is to do nothing, meaning we accept that the general public no longer has access to central bank money.

* A second alternative is to issue central bank money in a digital form, as a complement to cash and the money held in bank accounts.

seems like they've been thinking about this for a while

Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

#12

Post by vertline3 »

mamon wrote: post #2

More appropriate name would be "dystopia" because banning cash will have mostly adverse effects, intruducing nearly-totalitarian control over the citizens being the most important one.

They could say your rating is not high enough, you are now cut off completely. Or they would know all spending so it would be a bit nosey. And then people would not spend on things causing money circulation to slow, but maybe that is offset a bit by ease of swiping a card.

Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

#13

Post by gnomewascool »

hannasanarion wrote: post #7

Why does there need to be a separate government issued digital currency? Presumably all of the private accounts that people are currently using are measured in Kr already, and the banks already operate at fractional reserve so the actual paper doesn't exist. As an American, I make about one cash purchase a year, but that doesn't mean that I'm not spending US Dollars. It seems to me that calling digital money "e-krona…

Part of the point is that if physical cash were withdrawn then you would _have_ to depend on some private (i.e. non-government) third-party for your financial transactions. (Obviously you could claim that you already are dependent on them, but there's a difference between a de facto and a de iure dependence.)

Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

#14

Post by CPLX »

A society without cash is a society in which every person has no choice but to get the permission of someone they don’t know and will never meet each and every time they seek to obtain food, water, shelter, or transportation, and that permission can be revoked instantly, silently, and invisibly at any time.

Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

#15

Post by [deleted] »

CPLX wrote: post #14

A society without cash is a society in which every person has no choice but to get the permission of someone they don’t know and will never meet each and every time they seek to obtain food, water, shelter, or transportation, and that permission can be revoked instantly, silently, and invisibly at any time.

[deleted]

Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

#16

Post by clintonb »

hannasanarion wrote: post #7

Why does there need to be a separate government issued digital currency? Presumably all of the private accounts that people are currently using are measured in Kr already, and the banks already operate at fractional reserve so the actual paper doesn't exist. As an American, I make about one cash purchase a year, but that doesn't mean that I'm not spending US Dollars. It seems to me that calling digital money "e-krona…

> The development raises some crucial issues regarding the state’s role in the payment market. For hundreds of years, the public has been offered central bank notes and coins. If cash stops working, it would leave all individuals to rely on the private sector alone to get access to money and payment methods. This would be a historical change without precedence. Norway is seeing a similar trend, and the two central banks are cooperating in this area. In the Eurozone, cash is still used to a high degree. The value of the outstanding amount of cash is equivalent to 10% of the Eurozone GDP, versus the Swedish equivalent of only 1%.

A government system ideally guarantees access to every citizen/entity desiring to possess "cash". A system run by a private entity doesn't have to do so. If you don't agree/fall out of compliance with the terms of service of a private system, you can be banned. The same can be done on a government system, but at least you have the option of court intervention and voting people into/out of office.

Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

#17

Post by jamesblonde »

As a resident of Sweden, i can only say that this is the future for all western countries. Life is just better without cash. We don't pay the mental tax of always ensuring i have dollar bills on me to tip left, right, and center. Your phone is enough to get you through the day. The govt is still run by the people for the people here, so most people aren't worried about totalitarianism. Most beggars now have signs with their phone number to swish them cash - because nobody has cash to give them (the other form of begging is collecting plastic bottles and cans with deposits).

Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

#18

Post by tjoff »

CPLX wrote: post #14

A society without cash is a society in which every person has no choice but to get the permission of someone they don’t know and will never meet each and every time they seek to obtain food, water, shelter, or transportation, and that permission can be revoked instantly, silently, and invisibly at any time.

I agree, but the main point of an e-krona is exactly to try and reduce that risk.

One of the proposed goals is to have non-traceable transactions. Seems unrealistic to me but that would be the holy grail.

Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

#19

Post by CydeWeys »

CPLX wrote: post #14

A society without cash is a society in which every person has no choice but to get the permission of someone they don’t know and will never meet each and every time they seek to obtain food, water, shelter, or transportation, and that permission can be revoked instantly, silently, and invisibly at any time.

And you might be leery of criticizing any of these entities lest they withdraw your ability to do any of these things. That's a serious chilling effect.
Post reply on HN